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Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

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Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#551

Post by [deleted] »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #549
justin66 wrote: post #448

Interestingly just nine days ago someone here shared a link to the US's Law of War manual for military personnel. It's pretty good for what it is. Since countries base this stuff on the same international treaties they've all signed, it's a guide to Israel's conduct during war (or just about anyone's) as well as the US's. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46147605 https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-…

International law, as poorly enforced as it is, needs to have answers what to do with organizations that exist for the reason to destroy another country and that is financed through hostile nations. In this case Iran. Lebanon suffers as well here and Israel certainly isn't the main threat. The Geneva convention doesn't apply to combatants in this case and you cannot be more targeted than this operation. You spoiler a…

[deleted]

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#552

Post by raxxorraxor »

justin66 wrote: post #538
N19PEDL2 wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have questions about the concept of legality in a war like the one between Hamas/Hezbollah and Israel. The idea that in a war there can be legal and illegal actions established by international treaties to protect civilians as much as possible can only work if two (or more) legitimate states are fighting each other, with leaders who can be held accountable for the orders they give. But does it still make sense to t…

> The idea that in a war there can be legal and illegal actions established by international treaties to protect civilians as much as possible can only work if two (or more) legitimate states are fighting each other This is not true (the laws of war work and have been applied successfully in conflicts not involving two or more legitimate states) and it's an assumption that seems to have negatively informed the questi…

This operation was one of the most targeted military operations known in warfare. International law doesn't hold Hezbollah accountable for example. That is the reality today.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#553

Post by cess11 »

dlubarov wrote: post #546
alexander2002 wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

ICJ has made no such finding. They will probably making a ruling on genocide allegations in the coming years; they certain have not made one yet. The opinions they've issued so far are here https://www.icj-cij.org/decisions

ICJ found the accusation plausible, and did later in another case conclude that the israeli occupation of palestinian land and apartheid is not lawful and must stop.

Whether ICJ had found genocide perpetrated or just plausible does not matter very much since international law demands that even the risk of genocide triggers state action to put an end to that risk. The ICJ judgement regarding plausibility also made demands towards Israel, which that state has refused to comply with.

Starving a population of millions and systematically destroying their homes and infrastructure does not become jolly fine and dandy just because some court hasn't yet deemed it genocidal.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#554

Post by raxxorraxor »

cess11 wrote: post #550
dlubarov wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it an indiscriminate attack? It targeted Hezbollah operatives, not random Lebanese people.

For one it wasn't targeted, but either way, if it, as you claim, was targeted then it would be even worse because it's worse to kill and maim kids by targeting them than by being indifferent.

How was this not targeted? I was the most targeted military operation we know of. Give me any example of anything in warfare that is close to that.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#555

Post by dlubarov »

cess11 wrote: post #550
dlubarov wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it an indiscriminate attack? It targeted Hezbollah operatives, not random Lebanese people.

For one it wasn't targeted, but either way, if it, as you claim, was targeted then it would be even worse because it's worse to kill and maim kids by targeting them than by being indifferent.

Targeting Hezbollah operatives is certainly targeting, yes. The fact that there was still some nonzero harm to civilians, despite the targeting, does not refute that. Targeting doesn't imply zero collateral damage, which is an impossible standard.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#556

Post by raxxorraxor »

cess11 wrote: post #547
UltraSane wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The northern settlements were largely evacuated and used by the IDF." This is a complete and utter lie. Hezbollah's missile attacks throughout 2024 led to the evacuation of over 60,000 Israeli residents from northern Israel. Try to imagine the US response to Mexico shooting that many missiles at a US city. "Israel is an occupying power" Israel isn't occupying Lebanon but Hezbollah is. " making it permissible to figh…

Close to a hundred thousand israelis were evacuated from the north at the peak of it. Out of thousands of attacks something like 45 israeli civilians were killed, like when the IDF brought civilians to repair power lines and Hezbollah attacked them. More IDF soldiers were killed between October 2023 and the so called ceasefire agreement, which makes it quite clear that Hezbollah practiced restraint in this regard. I…

Restrained? Do you know why Hezbollah exists? This is just ridiculous propaganda...

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#557

Post by cess11 »

UltraSane wrote: post #522
lode wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, you are conflating Hamas and Hezbollah. Second of all, the stories about beheading of babies and mass rape on October 7, 2023 have been thoroughly debunked. Third: the pager operation caused indiscriminate explosions at places where non-combattant citizens were present. Not very gentlemen-ly (to use your words), and indeed a war crime. Fourth: What they did in Gaza is arguably worse than carpet bombing.

But the hundreds of concert goers who Hamas killed is very true. Remember how they paraded the broken body of that young German woman around like a disgusting hunting trophy?

How did you come up with that tally? Israel has refused to comply with requests from international investigators into the matter, likely because a lot of the casualties were due to IDF actions.

I remember the footage of "that young German woman" but it is to me extremely peripheral and did a lot less of an impression than the thousands of images of destroyed baby bodies I've seen that were caused by the IDF. The criminal actions perpetrated by palestinians on October 7th 2023 were pathetic compared to what the israelis have done for decades.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#558

Post by Stevvo »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #549
justin66 wrote: post #448

Interestingly just nine days ago someone here shared a link to the US's Law of War manual for military personnel. It's pretty good for what it is. Since countries base this stuff on the same international treaties they've all signed, it's a guide to Israel's conduct during war (or just about anyone's) as well as the US's. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46147605 https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-…

International law, as poorly enforced as it is, needs to have answers what to do with organizations that exist for the reason to destroy another country and that is financed through hostile nations. In this case Iran. Lebanon suffers as well here and Israel certainly isn't the main threat. The Geneva convention doesn't apply to combatants in this case and you cannot be more targeted than this operation. You spoiler a…

What? Iran is a 2574 years old. Saying Iran exists to "destroy Israel" is absurd as your attitude to International law. Was Iran just sitting there planning how to destroy Israel for 2500 years? Enjoy WW3, because that's where that attitude will take you.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#559

Post by raxxorraxor »

cess11 wrote: post #528
UltraSane wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

screaming "genocide" like this has become a cliched thought terminating cliche.

Well, if that stops your thinking, maybe ponder the illegality of the israeli occupation of palestinian territory then. The israelis must withdraw their people from palestinian territories occupied in -67 and ought to pay reparations for both the occupation and destruction of property, as well as allow refugees to either return to their homes or pay reparations to them. Unless they do this immediately the internation…

[flagged]

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#560

Post by [deleted] »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #552
justin66 wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that in a war there can be legal and illegal actions established by international treaties to protect civilians as much as possible can only work if two (or more) legitimate states are fighting each other This is not true (the laws of war work and have been applied successfully in conflicts not involving two or more legitimate states) and it's an assumption that seems to have negatively informed the questi…

This operation was one of the most targeted military operations known in warfare. International law doesn't hold Hezbollah accountable for example. That is the reality today.

[deleted]
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