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What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

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Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#551

Post by fluoridation »

L_226 wrote: post #548
fluoridation wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Forcing a private company to modify their product You have it backwards. The consumer is the one who pays for the product, he's the ones who should get a say of what does or doesn't run on it. You would not accept the same restrictions of any other kind of device. You would think it's an overreach for a printer manufacturer to design its printers so they only accept ink cartridges it approves.

Yes - and the consumer is choosing to buy this product. You can't claim that the vendor should change the product after it has been purchased. No I don't think it is overreach, I think it is good business. Other institutions (usually, ideally) put constraints on capitalism, through e.g. mandating USB-C, which could also be applied to printer cartridges. A printer company could even do a Patagonia, and make the most e…

>You can't claim that the vendor should change the product after it has been purchased.

The vendor is changing the product after it has been purchased, by removing features through software updates.

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#554

Post by crtasm »

i-chuks wrote: post #511
ErneX wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are mostly to prevent cheating (which is pretty bad for an online game) rather than piracy.

What about Ubisoft with ubisoft connect

Ubisoft Connect is separate from the DRM on their games as I understand it, it's a game launcher, achievements tracker, friends system, advertising method, etc.

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#555

Post by spogbiper »

gspencley wrote: post #544
bane wrote: post #349

I'm struck with how long the history of Apple's earliest iPhone has shaped and produced long-term damage to the concept of digital ownership. Apple originally didn't allow anybody but Apple to create software for the 1st gen iPhone, and only later was forced "opening" it my market forces. People who realized they actually owned the thing they bought wanted to do what they wanted, which required circumventing Apple's…

> that was never in question on normal computers. One of the things that really worries me is that this seems to be creeping in to desktop OS's as well. It's still possible, for now, to install software on Windows 11 without going through the "Microsoft Store", but I remember having to tweak some security settings to make that possible... and was really alarmed the first time I tried to install software on a fresh in…

You're talking about "S mode" on Windows. This is not the default mode for a new Windows install but it is sometimes chosen by the device manufacturer or controlling organization for.. reasons? It can easily be disabled

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#556

Post by volemo »

fsflover wrote: post #525
tonyhart7 wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

these phone is not niche because they are niche, but because they are sucks if there are alternative that magically better than Google/Apple ecosystem. people would instantly switch You don't need told people to switch, just need to prove it

They're not comparable to an iPhone but good enough to be a daily driver for technical people like the HN audience. Yet the latter never even mentions it saying there are no options, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45589096

> good enough to be a daily driver

Are they, though? I don’t think I’m the most demanding user [1], but a $2000 phone with 4 & 128 GB, a 720×1440 TFT, and no NFC? I guess I don't want my freedom that much. (Although USB 3.0 w/ DP is a very nice addition.) That’s not to mention the general bulkiness and the fact that, afaiu, the software doesn't support either Bluetooth or GPS — which are the most important functions my phone provides.

P.S.: writing this whine, I've realised Purism is not far off from the point where I'd make a happy switch — if they offered something smaller [2, 3] with an OLED display of at least 300 PPI [4], I’d buy it asap.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44590665

[2]: 5–5.5 inches diagonal and up to 10 mm thick.

[3]: I understand why the current models are so bulky, but personally I don't really care for modularity and hardware switches. I'd gladly trade those for optimised dimensions and weight of the device — compare how often I have to repair the device vs. how often I do handle it.

[4]: My current iPhone 12 mini is almost 500 PPI, and it's gorgeous, but I admit that's probably overkill.

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#557

Post by dingi »

fsflover wrote: post #510
tonyhart7 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You mean, GNU/Linux phones, Librem 5 and Pinephone?" not yet to diminish them who is build these Amazing tools/devices but I need to see it yet in real life hell even if you want to buy them, they literally often stock out in certain areas and we not counting technical expertise to operate the devices

Librem 5 is in stock, and it's my daily driver. These phones are niche, because in discussion like this one, everyone is constantly saying that it's impossible to escape the duopoly and we're doomed.

A quad-core ARM A53 just isn't doing that device any favors, even for a Linux phone. If only they had included at least a couple of ARM A76 cores or something.

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#558

Post by grishka »

godelski wrote: post #444
grishka wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think software is ever finished. Back when it came on physical media, it was very much finished. Needing an update to fix a critical bug or a UX issue was a very costly problem to have, both in money and in reputation. Users had to be convinced to buy and install major updates, instead of being strong-armed into it. Staying on an older version was easier, and in case of operating systems, much more widely a…

> Back when it came on physical media, it was very much finished. That's also not true and I think you're not reading my point fairly. Back when software came on physical media we still had patches. We had patches that came through the internet and we had patches that came through physical media. The latter making it harder to patch. It's a great situation when a bug is discovered and it is hard to patch. You're fant…

> we are not omniscient writers who can foresee all problems, fix all bugs, and write software that is unhackable

We can come close to that in all other areas of engineering, but somehow not software? We can build buildings and bridges and be certain that they won't collapse. We can engineer machines that work reliably and safely. But for some reason we can't do the same for software? I call bullshit.

> Hardware changes.

And operating systems do need to be updated for that sometimes, sure. They would even sometimes need to expose new APIs to apps, so the apps could make use of new hardware capabilities. However, there isn't much reason to update an OS on existing hardware. Especially when all that update does is bring a new stupider UI design that no one asked for.

> Software rots.

What the heck do you even mean by that? Software is a sequence of CPU instructions. It can't "rot". It's the runtime environments that rot for no good reason.

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#559

Post by fsflover »

volemo wrote: post #556
fsflover wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not comparable to an iPhone but good enough to be a daily driver for technical people like the HN audience. Yet the latter never even mentions it saying there are no options, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45589096

> good enough to be a daily driver Are they, though? I don’t think I’m the most demanding user [1], but a $2000 phone with 4 & 128 GB, a 720×1440 TFT, and no NFC? I guess I don't want my freedom that much. (Although USB 3.0 w/ DP is a very nice addition.) That’s not to mention the general bulkiness and the fact that, afaiu, the software doesn't support either Bluetooth or GPS — which are the most important functions…

I also would prefer a smaller phone. However

> I understand why the current models are so bulky, but personally I don't really care for modularity and hardware switches

These aren't the main reasons. It's more because of the chosen SoC, which came from automotive industry and was the only choice for running free software.

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#560

Post by LMYahooTFY »

PanoptesYC wrote: post #496
AlgebraFox wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead it would be great if you join the fight against Google (and Apple) by using FOSS and independent distributions like GrapheneOS. It is the most secure and private option we have today. Most apps work as it is except a few those who purposefully use Google Play Integrity API to block independent platforms.

Yeah it would be nice to break away from the google ecosystem and install GrapheneOS on whatever device I like- GrapheneOS has official production support for the following devices: Pixel 9a (tegu) Pixel 9 Pro Fold (comet) Pixel 9 Pro XL (komodo) Pixel 9 Pro (caiman) Pixel 9 (tokay) Pixel 8a (akita) Pixel 8 Pro (husky) Pixel 8 (shiba) Pixel Fold (felix) Pixel Tablet (tangorpro) Pixel 7a (lynx) Pixel 7 Pro (cheetah) P…

It's been discussed previously, but pixel devices are chosen for hardware security feature sets. Other devices are either not compatible/open enough to use or a security downgrade.
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