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Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

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Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#551

Post by philipkglass »

Scoundreller wrote: post #512
eldaisfish wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is false. Power line capacity is designed around the maximum power that must be delivered. Solar power by itself reduces the mean, and possibly the minimum as well, but never the maximum.

Are we expecting peak a/c loads on cloudy days or something?

In some places the annual peak demand is for summertime cooling, but in others the annual peak demand is for wintertime heating. It's too strong to say "never [reduce] the maximum" as the parent post did, but there are substantial regions where solar power can't reduce the needed power line capacity.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#552

Post by kharak »

jagermo wrote: post #463
mk89 wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway: 5.50 million people. Finland: 5.6 million people Sweden: 10.57 million people. All these 3 together have slightly more population than NRW in Germany, and they have way more money. So: almost same population, way more money and way more resources to generate energy (unless we want to consider Coal again... then we'd win). The sooner we stop considering the Nordics as the model example the better it is for all…

I mean, in Germany, issue number 1 is the grid, especially in Bavaria. Politicians were just asleep or did not care. For example, there is a super interesting agri PV installation in the Hallertau, where they grow most of the hops for beer. The farmer built and payed it himself and its a commercial trial instead of a public testrun. He lost about 20 percent of the hop compared to the non-pv areas; however, the money…

To add to this, I know person a farmer who wanted to use part of his farmland for solar panels. The project failed. Reasons: lack of power grid connection, no one wanted to takeover the costs for added capacity; and local resistance from residents. „I want to see the nature in front of my home“ is all what’s needed to fail consent.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#553

Post by stronglikedan »

kragen wrote: post #149
driverdan wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's way overpriced. An 800W solar system is easily under US$1000 now.

In the US? Where do you buy it from, and are we talking about a system that feeds power back onto the grid?

Not an answer to your question, but I was amazed at how wildly varied the pricing was when I was getting estimates. This was a few years back and I didn't go with it at the time, so I forget what the exact estimates were. But I remember that the highest was literally double the price of the lowest for all the same equipment. All I'm saying is don't trust any pricing you get from folks online, and do get a lot of estimates.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#554

Post by Asmod4n »

amomww wrote: post #441
benjiro wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those 3 plants had been running on "deferred maintenance" as the plant shutdown was planned years ago. Keeping the plants open will have resulted in a ton of money to maintain the safety of the plants going forwards. This was one of the biggest factors in the shutdown. Even if the plants stayed open, multiple reactors needed maintenance (and thus shutdown of those rectors). Remember, they kept the open even longer th…

Meanwhile, Dutch coal and gas plants are running overtime for electricity exports. Obviously to compensate for the German and Belgian nuclear exits. (see https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/NL/5y/monthly ) On top of that, NL govt is investing 10B EUR to prepare the construction of several new nuclear power plants, less than 300km from one of the abandoned German ones (Emsland). In conclusion the nuclear exits of…

Nuclear is the answer to no problem we face currently. It’s expensive, slow to build new plants (decades). It’s also not flexible in the way it’s useable.

Solar + battery storage on the other hand is super fast and easy to build, costs virtually nothing and leaves no toxic waste which can’t be recycled.

Nuclear fuel is also mostly only available from Russia, which no one wants as a trade partner.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#555

Post by lostlogin »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #246

Germany did one simple thing (uncharacteristically) which is removing all the bureaucracy here. Just go ahead and do it. It's fine. Cost in the article is cited at 550 euro. I just browsed amazon.de and you can buy complete plug and play kits here in Germany for as little as 239 euro. Most kits are priced between 300-350 euro. I did not see a many kits over 500. I pay about 70 euro per month for electricity. If it sa…

Any chance you could post a link to the sort of setup you mean or like?

I’ve searched but the deluge of crappy systems that aren’t what you mean is overwhelming results.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#556

Post by infinet »

p2detar wrote: post #459
walthamstow wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not German nor do I live there, but I would have thought the legacy of Habeck would be more negative due to his opposition to nuclear.

Well, I like the guy but compare the electricity prices in Germany to other European states, and also to China and the US. It’s about $0.15 kWh in the US vs $0.40 kWh in Germany. I personally think this is absolutely insane, but I don’t blame Habeck but the poor renewables transition execution in Germany. It is currently a failure in terms of electricity consumer prices. Edit: I just rechecked China and wow! $0.08 pe…

> Edit: I just rechecked China and wow! $0.08 per kWh. Can anyone confirm?

Yes, it is in the ballpark of $0.08/kWh. It varies a little bit across regions. Also in some places the price is only half during the night. But as you consume more power, you may see the price rise to $0.12/kWh.

In 2024, cost of renewable + storage was 0.52-0.88 CNY/kWh($0.08-$0.12). Advancement in storage is expected to drive that cost down by more than 50%.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#557

Post by Asmod4n »

p2detar wrote: post #459
walthamstow wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not German nor do I live there, but I would have thought the legacy of Habeck would be more negative due to his opposition to nuclear.

Well, I like the guy but compare the electricity prices in Germany to other European states, and also to China and the US. It’s about $0.15 kWh in the US vs $0.40 kWh in Germany. I personally think this is absolutely insane, but I don’t blame Habeck but the poor renewables transition execution in Germany. It is currently a failure in terms of electricity consumer prices. Edit: I just rechecked China and wow! $0.08 pe…

I got a “expensive” renewable only energy plan and it’s 31,4 cents per kilowatt hour in Germany. Conventional ones should be cheaper. So no idea where you got 40 cents from.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#558

Post by ajross »

jagermo wrote: post #302
cjpearson wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big factor in the quick return (and maybe one reason for its popularity) is that Germany has some of the most expensive electricity in the world. The ROI doesn't look as attractive in France, the US or Norway.

Some good points, i have a few thoughts to add. Norway: yes, they are doing fine (80% EV, btw, so it seems you can actually use EVs in colder weather... I think the nordics are actually way ahead of the rest of Europe when it comes to sustainable energy creation, with norway getting about 90% last year from Hydro - super impressive. https://lowcarbonpower.org/region/Norway France: I think they might turn around, beca…

FWIW, that "blackout tracker" link is garbage. First, because it's five years old: if the data showed that growth someone would have updated it.

But also because it's wrong! There's one outlier bad data point, in 2020, and they draw a line straight through it. Take that one year out and it looks awfully flat to me.

Re: Germany outfitted half a million balconies with solar panels

#559

Post by ivanche »

pyrale wrote: post #475
Tepix wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why it is a bad investment? These 800W of solar pay for themselves within 3 years usually.

They pay for themeslves when compared to your bill prices. They absolutely don't pay for themselves when compared with actual market prices for electricity generation. Your bill is priced that way so that you can have predictable price for what you consume. That means sometimes markets electricity at zero, but you'll pay the full contract price. Other times, electricity is _much_ more expensive than your contract, an…

Is it even possible for a private person to pay market price instead of a fixed price?
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