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Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

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Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#551

Post by g8oz »

slg wrote: post #64

>Iranian IPs are blocked here, due to your decision to arm Russia with drones so that they can indiscriminately massacre civilians. The "your decision" in that response is really off-putting. I know the law is what it is with sanctions like this. However, it is a failing of basic human empathy to blame other common citizens of a country for the actions of their government while we almost certainly do not endorse all…

Looking forward to a service that says something like:

"American IPs are blocked here, due to your decision to arm Israel so that they can indiscriminately massacre civilians."

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#552

Post by miningape »

VerminOctopus1 wrote: post #500
miningape wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dress it up however you like, the fact remains that countries can choose to not provide goods and services to whomever they want for whatever reason they want. There's absolutely no moral obligation on an individual in any country to defy these laws and risk prison time - if they want change they can petition, vote and protest. Beyond that the West is not responsible for any deaths caused by governments that refuse t…

> The west is not responsible for any deaths caused by governments that refuse to cooperate with us This US-centric mindset is so disgusting and emblematic of the narcissism of the west. The country has established itself as the most potent force for violence and economic abuse in the world.

You can easily take "the west" out of that sentence and replace it with any other country and it's still fair.

E.g. China sanctions a country then "China is not responsible for any deaths caused by governments that refuse to cooperate with them"

It's entirely the responsibility of each government to ensure the welfare of its own citizens. Anything more is purely goodwill. Anything less is treason.

You're just coping because the US/west is the predominant power.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#553

Post by flyinglizard »

sporkxrocket wrote: post #543
flyinglizard wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The notion that Israel was created by force is just not true. Jews were always a part of historical Palestine, and most of the land they inhabited was legally bought, by bodies like the JNF, up until the war of 1948. That war, started by the Arabs, came as a result of the League of Nations declaration of the formation of Israel. It's important to stress that there was never a Palestinian country, nor a cohesive Pales…

This is ahistorical propaganda. Nakba was the ethnic cleansing of indigenous Palestinians in favor of invading Europeans. Israel was fully created through terrorism and war crimes, which continue at scale to this day.

No, that's false. "Nakba" refers to the exodus of the Palestinians during 1948. It says exactly that in the Wiki. The exodus came as a result of war, first between the local Arabs and the Jews, and more prominently when Arab armies joined the war against Israel after it was declared a state.

Israel was given statehood by a decision of the League of Nations, the body preceding the UN.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#554

Post by varjag »

michtzik wrote: post #394
varjag wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is not purchasing Russian oil. The only two EU states doing so are Hungary and Slovakia and both have vocally pro-Russian governments.

Your parent comment is correct. Germany buys millions of tons of "Kazakh" oil via the Druzhba pipeline, arriving at the PCK refinery in Schwedt. This oil is "blended" with Russian oil, and in any case is transported by Russia. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kazakhstans-january-...

Most of the oil from Kazakhstan is transported via the Caspian pipeline. Druzhba had been defunct for couple of months too. I think some figures of Kazakh oil imports from Russia would be in order.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#556

Post by Xelbair »

School-Cotton wrote: post #537
Xelbair wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In democratic system(please spare me "we're republic not a democracy" adage that every American spewes) every citizen votes, and shares responsibility in decision making process. You can become politically active and try to convince others if you don't like current status quo, inaction is also a choice. Unless you think US isn't a democratic country but authoritarian one(either oligarchy, technocracy or whatever - do…

> every citizen votes, and shares responsibility in decision making process Why? I never consented to be a part of the system, don't agree with it, and in practice can do nothing to change it. Saying I'm responsible for it because I happened to be arbitrarily born with a particular citizenship is meaningless. > In democratic system... There is no reason why I, an unrelated individual, should have to ascribe to the id…

You might not believe in system and ignore it - your choice. but it exists.

You live in it, and it is part of your reality so your only choices are to emigrate somewhere undemocratic, or be part of it.

It is pure denial of reality otherwise.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#557

Post by miningape »

cess11 wrote: post #503
miningape wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dress it up however you like, the fact remains that countries can choose to not provide goods and services to whomever they want for whatever reason they want. There's absolutely no moral obligation on an individual in any country to defy these laws and risk prison time - if they want change they can petition, vote and protest. Beyond that the West is not responsible for any deaths caused by governments that refuse t…

The word "cooperate" carries a lot of weight in your reasoning. Could you give some examples? One could also flip your argument and consider the many decades of US narcoterrorism, regime change operations and so on and the rather long line of failed states in its wake, and draw the conclusion that we ought to actually not submit to this 'world power' regardless of whether it 'dresses itself up' to be 'cooperative' wh…

For example, not respecting copyright laws (China), not participating in other sanctions (India), or intentionally destroying diplomatic relations (South Africa). It could also be more serious things like declarations of war, or long standing bad relations.

> One could also flip your argument and consider the many decades of US narcoterrorism

I'd agree with you here, I'm speaking purely of diplomatic / trade related activities (i.e. tariffs, sanctions, etc.) - imo putting boots on the ground or funding insurrections are an escalation that 1. no longer respects the autonomy of a country/people 2. are equivalent to military action

There's of course still a lot of grey-zones but hopefully it clarifies my position.

> we ought to actually not submit to this 'world power'

Again I agree, WE (as private citizens) ought not to, however diplomacy and trade are careful games played between larger entities (corporations, governments, etc.). But on the flip side it also doesn't mean we have to go against everything the government does (i.e. it isn't inherently evil).

The tricky line (as in this case) is when the actions of those entities can have an effect on you (the private citizen) like jail time.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#558

Post by FrustratedMonky »

integralid wrote: post #435
spwa4 wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's an insane take, to the point I thought you're being sarcastic. He's not asking Americans to overthrow their government. He's not even asking Americans to lift the sanctions (as he said explicitly). In fact, he's not asking for anything, just recollecting his experiences. More importantly, you're comparing asking a (poor) country citizens to overthrow their own government with a (rich, western) country... lifti…

It might be insane take, but that is the take of the US Government.

That is the policy and a frequent GOP talking point.

Sanctions -> Pressure on the people -> People are miserable -> People rise up and revolt against their Government -> Government is replaced with Rainbows and Unicorns.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#559

Post by myrmidon »

lazide wrote: post #462
kelnos wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would Russia perhaps have already conquered Ukraine without sanctions? Would Iran have destroyed Israel by now without sanctions? Would NK have become a nuclear power much earlier, and have a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons today, were it not for sanctions? I don't know the answers to those questions, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was "yes".

Russia lost (in a real sense), when their blitzkrieg of Kiev failed. From that point on, it’s just how much they turn the crank on the meat grinder that is trench warfare. It’s the nature of the bet that is inherent in Blitzkrieg. Ukraine/Russia is about who is going to lose more after that, not who can win. No one can win anymore. Sanctions or lack thereof definitely impacts quality of life, but Putin put everything…

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I think one aspect of sanctions that you are missing a bit is that they stifle growth (especially long-term) by forcing the victim to waste ressources on unwanted/inefficient industries or convoluted procurement.

Basically, you are hurting your own economy (non negligibly in the EU-Russia case for example!) to make sure that you outgrow the sanctioned opponent, making any future conflict more favorable for yourself.

There is a lot of evidence that this aspect works pretty well; even if you can sidestep the sanctions with middle-men or substitute local industry, this always comes with additional friction/costs (just consider German synth fuel industry during WW2-- that was an insane amount of ressources that could've gone into planes or tanks or somesuch instead).

For an example of sanctions directly effecting diplomatic outcomes, just consider Jordan over the Gulf wars: They stayed neutral during the first one (which Bush did NOT like), got sanctioned (without western citizens even noticing too much), suffered a lot from that, then during the second Iraq war they basically cooperated with the US (grudgingly!).

I think it is difficult to find many clear examples for this because sanctions typically mostly work as a threat, and being put in place is a kind of failure mode for them already.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#560

Post by gilbetron »

aarroyoc wrote: post #19

These sanctions are not really effective. I think Cuba is the country that has had them for the most amount of time and... Nothing changed. Instead they force them to develop in house tech which may be better for them in the long term

What do you think should be done? War? Nothing? Diplomacy didn't work.
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