We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that • Hacker News Board

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#551

Post by NoGravitas » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 5:24 PM UTC

gowld wrote: post #89

darthoctopus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read the article? Here is the situation in China: > Here's what's actually happening. As of 2024, there's still no nationwide social credit score in China. Most private scoring systems have been shut down, and local government pilots have largely ended. It’s mainly a fragmented collection of regulatory compliance tools, mostly focused on financial behavior and business oversight. While well over 33 milli…

You are conflating "social credit score", which hasn't been built out in China (although blacklisting, imprisonment, and torture for wrongthink has been built out), with "financial credit score" which exists in USA via private companies working togther, and "credit reports" which exist in both USA and China. China's is run by the unelected, dictatorial government.

In effect, the difference is much less than you imply.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#552

Post by NoGravitas » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 5:26 PM UTC

timeon wrote: post #235

gowld wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conflating "social credit score", which hasn't been built out in China (although blacklisting, imprisonment, and torture for wrongthink has been built out), with "financial credit score" which exists in USA via private companies working togther, and "credit reports" which exist in both USA and China. China's is run by the unelected, dictatorial government.

In US they have just one more party than in China. Also 1 person is not automatically 1 vote.

"The United States is also a one-party state, but with typical American extravagance, they have two of them." -- Julius Nyerere

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#553

Post by carlosjobim » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 5:26 PM UTC

socalgal2 wrote: post #508

socalgal2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking a random LLM to give reasons they might do this. Again, I'm not saying they do this. I'm saying my fear that they might isn't unfounded * To Prevent Unfair and Unfounded Ratings: Uber could argue that some riders misuse the rating system. They might give a driver a low rating for reasons outside of the driver's control, such as traffic, a bad mood, or a simple misunderstanding. This policy would be presented a…

I see the word "LLM" made people stupid. No one actually used engaged their brain once they saw the word "LLM"

I'm not interested in having a discussion with a machine.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#554

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 5:32 PM UTC

causal wrote: post #533

0xffff2 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing is categorically a financial transaction. Clearances are a far broader investigation, but to the extent that they look at your credit, I believe it is also to establish your financial status, which is most definitely a significant component of the clearance process. Preemployment: I admit to not having started a new job in many years... Is there any evidence whatsoever you can present that companies regularly…

Hey I see you're quibbling on details, maybe because you feel determined to win an argument to save face or something. I must point out that nobody here cares whether you were wrong, and digging in your heels even after multiple people provided multiple examples just drags the conversation to unproductive places. As I said in the first reply, there is very little behavior you cannot tie money to in some way, so you c…

[deleted]

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#555

Post by NoGravitas » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 5:33 PM UTC

gspencley wrote: post #147

> The only difference between your phone and China's social credit system is that China tells you what they're doing. We pretend our algorithmic reputation scores are just “user experience features.” At least Beijing admits they're gamifying human behavior. Um no. That is not the only difference by a LONG SHOT. If I want to evaluate whether or not I want to involve myself with you, in any capacity, then that negotiat…

> If I want to evaluate whether or not I want to involve myself with you, in any capacity, then that negotiation is between you and me.

Congratulations on opting out of your business relationship with Experian, then.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#556

Post by 0xffff2 » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 5:35 PM UTC

causal wrote: post #533

0xffff2 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing is categorically a financial transaction. Clearances are a far broader investigation, but to the extent that they look at your credit, I believe it is also to establish your financial status, which is most definitely a significant component of the clearance process. Preemployment: I admit to not having started a new job in many years... Is there any evidence whatsoever you can present that companies regularly…

Hey I see you're quibbling on details, maybe because you feel determined to win an argument to save face or something. I must point out that nobody here cares whether you were wrong, and digging in your heels even after multiple people provided multiple examples just drags the conversation to unproductive places. As I said in the first reply, there is very little behavior you cannot tie money to in some way, so you c…

> Hey I see you're quibbling on details, maybe because you feel determined to win an argument to save face or something.

Ha. Pot, meet kettle.

Two out of the three examples given were not "tied to money in some way", they are examples where the creditworthiness of the person is central to the transaction.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#557

Post by LunaSea » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 5:37 PM UTC

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #411

idiomat9000 wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is not. It seems that way if you are a (s)expat in the honeymoonphase. Then you learn the language and look into the abyss. In it families who can not trust one another, hierarchies of incompetence with bribes upon bribes, no legal recourse to anything, a caste system of actual misery and no perspective for that to ever change. And that is peace time. In wartime the ethnic majority progroms and kicks everyone…

Literally none (0%) of this applies to China. Burma, maybe. But even that's a stretch. You're exaggerating for dramatic or comedic effect, that much is certain.

> Literally none (0%) of this applies to China.

Isn't corruption the reason given by Xi Jinping for removing from their position multiple high ranking CCP members, generals, regional representatives and billionaires?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#558

Post by immibis » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 5:37 PM UTC

GJim wrote: post #364

mr_toad wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re telling people to punch other people in the balls maybe you should be arrested.

Your comment has deliberately omitted the context needed for honest discourse. Thus, one can only conclude you are trolling.

So did the one they're replying to. They're just replying like-for-like.

It's typical that when someone is arrested for "X action with Y detail" (e.g. buying a knife with intent to kill someone) people who oppose the arrest will only state the X (and for some reason this works). To correct the record when someone says "I don't expect to be arrested for buying a knife", "I do expect to be arrested for planning to a murder" is a correct response.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#559

Post by jiscariot » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 5:39 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #29

There was a comment that appeared for a few minutes before getting deleted, that vaguely lined up with what I wanted to say. It didn't reappear, so I'll just repost it: >real life also has social credit. were you an asshole to the bartender last week? that goes to your reputation at that bar. did you volunteer with a local non-profit? that goes to your reputation with that organization. even without an algorithm, peo…

Using the author's loose criteria, one could say a criminal record is a social credit system.

These are the emergent fruits of living in a complex society, where one cannot realistically track reputation of everyone they encounter across all areas of life. We could move away from some of the formalized systems, if we decided to go back to shaming people for poor behaviors.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#560

Post by hiatus » Wed, Sep 03, 2025, 5:39 PM UTC

causal wrote: post #550

hiatus wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point? If people will extend you credit for things like an apartment (since there is risk you will stop paying) or for a car, it seems sensible to perform credit checks then. What else are scores used for that don't intersect with someone trusting you with their property?

Again, missing the point - it is a system that has become a centralized digital scoring mechanism. This is dangerous because it centralizes power, giving institutions that are not even under democratic control the power to punish individuals or groups as they see fit across all sectors of life.

This is sensational. You said

> Credit scores are used for a lot more than finances.

but you can't provide a concrete example.

> giving institutions that are not even under democratic control

Which institutions? Banks? Landlords? Other people trusting you with their property?

> the power to punish individuals or groups as they see fit across all sectors of life.

Where? How?