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Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

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Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#551

It's fascinating seeing all the comments elsewhere anytime Waymo starts testing in another city along the lines of, "ah, but how will they handle X, Y, and Z here?? Checkmate, robots!" despite having already launched service in several other cities. Granted, NYC is the biggest city in the US, so maybe that sort of reaction is more reasonable there than when people in Dallas or Boston do it.

I don't think they've really launched anywhere challenging yet though. Nothing like London for example, and that's probably middle of the scale.

Obviously starting in the easy places is the right move, but I don't think you can dismiss the comments like that.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same "alternative" that there is to every other crime in existence, proving the person you charged with a crime actually committed the crime. The default is suppose to be innocence, not guilty. It is the state's responsibility or problem to prove someone is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not a citizen's responsibility to prove their continued innocence at all times.

I mean, the state obviously has photo evidence. So you need to show that either the photo was taken in error, that it misidentified your vehicle or that you weren't the legal owner at the time.

That's absolutely hilarious. They take a photo of something approximating your vehicle that shows your plate number, toss it in a mail system that loses more than 0.5% of the class of mail used, then according to another poster in NY they impound your car after all this.

Anyplace with the slightest adherence to the rule of law requires the state to positively identify an actual person, not a vehicle owned by a person, that is responsible for a moving violation. And then personally serve that person rather than just coming up with this absolute bullshit excuse that an unreliable mail system with a letter dropped god knows where somehow is legal service.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#553
post #427
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't surprise me if each Waymo has one of a pool of aggression settings - I've noticed the difference between cars as a rider.

Interesting. I hadn’t considered it but that makes a lot of sense. I wonder if that happens per car or per ride. Do aggression settings adjust to apparent passenger comfort?

Unclear, I’ve noticed both timid and aggressive on the same day in different cars so maybe not?

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most the USA, or at least Arizona, you have to serve someone. Just dropping something in a mail box doesn't mean dick. The very people that invented the traffic cameras up in Scottsdale were caught dodging the process servers from triggers from their own camera. Another words, you have to spend hundreds of dollars chasing someone down, by the time you add that on to how easy it is to jam up the ticket in court by…

I live in AZ, try driving on Lincoln in Paradise Valley. Everyone is going at 40mph because of the speed cameras. Most people don't want to be fugitives.

It's just a process server, not cops. It's just the equivalent of a glorified delivery man looking for you. The general counsel, an executive, and the employees in general of ATS (the company that does the traffic cameras in most of AZ and I think much the USA) dodge the process servers when they get caught by their own cameras. The people that understand how the process works don't seem too bothered being a "fugitive" as it's all a nothing-burger and if you get caught all it means is you need to hire a lawyer to make it go away or pay the ticket.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#555
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclists contribute to congestion and occupy road space that was created through taxes on motorists while paying nothing for these benefits. Cyclists are not licensed and their bicycles are not tagged or inspected for safe operation on roads, unlike motorists. Cyclists are rarely subjected to traffic law enforcement despite demanding all of the rights that motorists pay for and are licensed for. Cyclists are a danger…

> Cyclists contribute to congestion How many cyclists can fit in a space of one car? Or, would you rather that every cyclist was in a car instead? Would that increase or decrease congestion? > occupy road space that was created through taxes on motorists while paying nothing for these benefits So roads get funded in full by motorists and cyclists can't possibly also own motorized vehicles and they don't pay tax that…

Cyclists travel slower than the prevailing speed of motorists, and they accelerate from a stop much slower. And while they don’t take up much space, the space they consume is not zero. We can argue the magnitude here, but the effect is obvious to anyone who has shared the road with a cyclist.

Road wear is not the main issue. Roads will deteriorate whether they’re used or not. They will deteriorate faster with heavier traffic, sure. But deterioration from temperature cycling, road salt application, and weather happens whether they’re used or not. If cyclists want to use this infrastructure, they should contribute to its upkeep.

If cyclists have a car and contribute by paying these taxes and fees, then let’s build a regulatory regime that exempts these users from cyclist fees and taxes. The point here is to make those using the infrastructure pay for their share of upkeep and their contribution to congestion.

Deer are only a danger to themselves too, right? People never experience damage to their vehicle or personal injury when they hit a deer? The damage and risk is not proportional to both parties, sure. But it is false to say that drivers experience no risk of damage or bodily injury when in an accident with a cyclist who disobeys traffic laws. Cyclists should be insured at whatever rate is necessary to protect against this risk.

Your school children example is not really applicable here. We’re discussing cyclists who want to be treated like motorists but refuse to act like them and obey common traffic rules. That is about as far as you can get from from an innocent group of school children crossing the street with the flashing red stop sign on the school bus activated.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riding a bike without a helmet is permitted in most states, too. Just because it’s lawful doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

That's a new and moved goalpost far from the original discussion, but sure. Is there a specific state's laws that you think describe a circumstances when a bike may proceed through a red light, but it is unsafe to do so? If so, how does that unsafety compare to your opinion on cars turning right on red?

Let me be more direct: because it’s legal for cyclists to run red lights, you think they should? I hope you can see what I am getting at now.

You can’t have it both ways. If cyclists are going to use roads designed for and paid by motorists, they should be subject to the same rules, regulations, taxes, and enforcement.

You’re welcome to defend a double standard for cyclists, but it won’t change the fact that it is indeed a double standard and is inherently unfair.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#557
post #540
post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The woman is going to claim it’s a service animal. There’s no real rules about service animals I agree with your overall point, but there are actually rules about what types of behavior are unacceptable for service animals. Uncontrolled or disruptive barking is one of those unacceptable behaviors. The store would be entirely within their right to warn this person and remove the owner and/or ban the “service animal”…

Only if the rest of society won’t back you up. Which is the real issue. Society in general has turned into a bunch of lazy cowards.

[deleted]

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#558
post #540
post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The woman is going to claim it’s a service animal. There’s no real rules about service animals I agree with your overall point, but there are actually rules about what types of behavior are unacceptable for service animals. Uncontrolled or disruptive barking is one of those unacceptable behaviors. The store would be entirely within their right to warn this person and remove the owner and/or ban the “service animal”…

Only if the rest of society won’t back you up. Which is the real issue. Society in general has turned into a bunch of lazy cowards.

If anything, the rest of society acts like you're the one out of line for confronting people who entitle themselves to bring their pet with them.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#559
post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently people will just ignore a revoked license the same way they ignore other traffic laws. So I think ~level 5 self driving cars becoming common + a modification to prevent people using their cars just like we install breathalyzers for habitual DUI drivers is needed before revoking people’s licenses is really a meaningful punishment.

Doubtless some would ignore it, but you can go to jail for driving on a suspended license. I suspect there are a lot more people willing to risk a traffic ticket and a few $100 in fines for speeding, bad lane changes, etc. than there are people willing to risk jail for driving on a suspended license.

Obviously it’s not 100% meaningless, but the kind of people losing their licenses here correlate with the kinds of people who will take these risks.

Thus for many it’s a symbolic gesture until the next time something happens which is little different than simply doing nothing until the next incident like say 3 strike laws.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because half the year it's freezing cold or blistering hot? With CitiBike and so many bike lanes it basically already is a biker's paradise. Obviously there could be lots more improvements, but the people who want to bike already do.

Every fall on Brussels there's an ad for public bikes. It reads "Ride a bike, it warms you up" (Faites du vélo, ça réchauffe).

A slogan doesn't make something true.

And more specifically, your torso can be roasting while the freezing wind is giving your face frostbite, and your legs are frigid.

There's a reason why skiers wear face masks and huge goggles and snow pants. Not usually very practical in cities, however.

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