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Working on databases from prison

turso.tech

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Re: Working on databases from prison

#551

Post by brulard »

const_cast wrote: post #549
brulard wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a prisoner costs $50k a year, and "if" he would work a job where he would make $50k a year and if he didn't receive a dime from it, does it look to you like a free labor? He merely makes up for what he costs the system, not taking into consideration the likely damage that he has done that made him end up in prison in the first place. And I don't expect prisoners to have anywhere close to $50k salary jobs.

The problem here is you’re really asking for abuse with this mentality. Prisoners should cost money, lots and lots of money. Otherwise we might just decide to imprison you and extract your labor. And that is exactly why we used to see 20 years for possession. What, did you think we were just burning money for kicks?

That's what I tried to refute in my previous comment. So in case I miss something, explain to me how is it economical for someone to enslave you, if it costs him $50k/year and he will almost certainly extract less value from your work (from data i found $20-$25k/year jobs are common for prisoners). That's the exact opposite of free labor. It is very expensive labor. I would agree if the cost was like $10k and you would extract considerably more from the job done. But it is not the case. Maybe in countries where they don't spend much on prisons what you say works. I don't think it does in US or in any other developed country

Re: Working on databases from prison

#552

Post by tristan957 »

pyuser583 wrote: post #527
const_cast wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That cost should be taken by our government and the tax payer, as a disincentive to locking people up. If you can lock someone up and get close to free labor for it, then we're going to start locking a lot of people up. I mean, it's free labor. Which is why we used to give people 20 years for possession of marijuana. What, you think it's just a coincidence we were throwing primarily black Americans away in prison for…

Do you think prisoners are literally picking cotton?

In some states like Louisiana, picking cotton is still something some prisoners do.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#553

Post by tristan957 »

brulard wrote: post #551
const_cast wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is you’re really asking for abuse with this mentality. Prisoners should cost money, lots and lots of money. Otherwise we might just decide to imprison you and extract your labor. And that is exactly why we used to see 20 years for possession. What, did you think we were just burning money for kicks?

That's what I tried to refute in my previous comment. So in case I miss something, explain to me how is it economical for someone to enslave you, if it costs him $50k/year and he will almost certainly extract less value from your work (from data i found $20-$25k/year jobs are common for prisoners). That's the exact opposite of free labor. It is very expensive labor. I would agree if the cost was like $10k and you wou…

Government is not a business, nor is it 0-sum. Well-functioning societies with low rates of recidivism invest much more in their prisoners. We should be investing money into prisoners, so that they can re-integrate into society and become successful tax-paying citizens, just like the premise of the blog post we are commenting on. As the co-founder said, the Department of Corrections in Maine takes a cut of the inmate's salary.

NPR did a great article on the prison system in Norway: https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/05/31/410532066/.... They are quoted as spending $90,000 per prisoner with a recidivism rate at half the US rate.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#554

Post by const_cast »

brulard wrote: post #551
const_cast wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is you’re really asking for abuse with this mentality. Prisoners should cost money, lots and lots of money. Otherwise we might just decide to imprison you and extract your labor. And that is exactly why we used to see 20 years for possession. What, did you think we were just burning money for kicks?

That's what I tried to refute in my previous comment. So in case I miss something, explain to me how is it economical for someone to enslave you, if it costs him $50k/year and he will almost certainly extract less value from your work (from data i found $20-$25k/year jobs are common for prisoners). That's the exact opposite of free labor. It is very expensive labor. I would agree if the cost was like $10k and you wou…

Cheap labor is still valuable, I don't know what to tell you. 20k salary net is very cheap. I don't know why you think it's expensive, because it's not. What you're maybe missing is the job needs to be done regardless - it's not like if we stop using prisoners for labor that need for labor just - poof - disappears.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#555

Post by bastawhiz »

ArthurStacks wrote: post #464
bastawhiz wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not disputing that. But someone doesn't simply decide to acquire that much of a very serious drug with a sound mind. Is it fair to treat a crime the same for two people if one person is suffering from schizophrenia and the other is of sound mind? Simply saying "you did a terrible thing, and that's irredeemable" isn't useful to society. What good are you doing if you've rehabilitated the criminal? You're just spen…

Great, go take that idea to the parents who want justice for the child who is dead due to scumbags like this guy.

It doesn't matter what the parents think. Truly. Prison isn't and has never been about making the family of victims whole. And this guy didn't kill anyone.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#556

Post by bastawhiz »

ArthurStacks wrote: post #462
bastawhiz wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To what end? To spend tax dollars? To make them rot away indefinitely? What good are we doing to society if we are keeping rehabilitated individuals locked up at taxpayer expense? There's no objectively correct amount of punishment. The correct amount of punishment should be the smallest amount of time necessary to be confident that the criminal won't cause more harm to society, especially when the crime was committe…

To what end? Justice.

Justice goes both ways. How much punishment is too much justice? At some point you're just being cruel, which the US constitution forbids.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#557

Post by bokoharambe »

oh_fiddlesticks wrote: post #417
bokoharambe wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced room and board?

To be honest, if he didn't pay a cut of his earnings while living off government allocated funds, wouldn't that put him in a better position than those who haven't been found guilty and sentenced for breaking the laws of the land in which they reside? I can't see a much resistance to the argument that they one really ought to pay the full cost back to the state, as with community service... no?

No, for the simple fact that he'd still be stuck in an American prison where people are brutalized, sexually assaulted, denied access to medical care, abused by guards, etc. regularly. He deserves everything he is able to earn under those conditions, and truthfully it's a miracle he can work at all.

Americans have become too comfortable with their everyday sadism.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#558

Post by ArthurStacks »

bastawhiz wrote: post #555
ArthurStacks wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, go take that idea to the parents who want justice for the child who is dead due to scumbags like this guy.

It doesn't matter what the parents think. Truly. Prison isn't and has never been about making the family of victims whole. And this guy didn't kill anyone.

[dead]

Re: Working on databases from prison

#559

Post by brulard »

const_cast wrote: post #554
brulard wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I tried to refute in my previous comment. So in case I miss something, explain to me how is it economical for someone to enslave you, if it costs him $50k/year and he will almost certainly extract less value from your work (from data i found $20-$25k/year jobs are common for prisoners). That's the exact opposite of free labor. It is very expensive labor. I would agree if the cost was like $10k and you wou…

Cheap labor is still valuable, I don't know what to tell you. 20k salary net is very cheap. I don't know why you think it's expensive, because it's not. What you're maybe missing is the job needs to be done regardless - it's not like if we stop using prisoners for labor that need for labor just - poof - disappears.

Do you mean that the benefit of cheap labor goes to private companies, but the cost stays with the taxpayers? If so, I see the logic. If we are talking about imprisoning someone, because we get cheaper labor for example inside the prison, than that doesn't make sense. Of course I count that the job needs to be done.

Scenario A (person not imprisoned):

- Prison cost: $0

- Labor cost: $25k (hire someone)

- Total cost: $25k

Scenario B (person imprisoned):

- Prison cost: $50k

- Labor cost: $0 (prisoner does it)

- Total cost: $50k

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