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Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

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Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only by analyzing the apps can Apple enforce several policies Or they could secure the runtime and quit giving developers dangerous entitlements in the first place. Make no mistake, Apple doesn't need the App Store to develop meaningful security for their users. The Mac is living proof.

> The Mac is living proof. Is Mac as secure as iOS?

No.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this decision. But I also like that I can cancel all my IAP subs in the settings quickly. Maybe stripe could set up consumer accounts to do the same.

The government should require credit card companies to introduce a system for recurring billing which would let you see all your subscriptions on your credit card web site and cancel them there. For the 3.5% they charge in fees it is the least they can do.

Sure but until that happens the App Store is the next best option.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when in reality, it's the OS I disagree. Application developers have always been absolutely terrible at packaging. We see this all the time on linux, where publishers just fail to follow the packaging standard of the system, and instead develop an "installer" for their special little snowflake application. The OS cannot save you from that unless you also control distribution and can tell that publisher "you don't g…

We don’t see this on Android, where you can install apps from outside the Play Store.

Does Android have just as good a security record as iOS? I honestly don't know the answer to this question.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#554
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I might phrase it a little bit differently. I recommend thinking about corporate stances as actions and interests, not moral intentions. Don’t expect a corporation to do things for moral reasons. Trust them only to the extent that their actions are in their self interest. To be fair, some organizations do have charters and interests that make them more palatable than others. One takeaway to startups that…

Therefore it's better to stay the hell away from companies who actively seek to take away your freedom.

Isn't that all of them if they could?

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#555
post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so it must continue to exist with the implication that it is good The purpose and reason why these concepts are absolutely good would be specifically because people like you, with your attitude exist. The purpose of the law isn't to play this game of bad faith find the loophole. Instead, the purpose is to make people follow both the letter and the intent of it. And The reason why vague concepts like this are good,…

Then we should just eliminate all the laws and instead pass one law that says "don't be evil" and just let the judges/juries make it up as they go. The truth is that you don't believe your own argument. You want LOTS of laws specifying all kinds of unacceptable behaviors in great detail. You only differ from me in where that line should be drawn.

[deleted]

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#556
post #107

> Internally, Phillip Schiller had advocated that Apple comply with the Injunction, but Tim Cook ignored Schiller and instead allowed Chief Financial Officer Luca Maestri and his finance team to convince him otherwise. The bean counters won. I guess Tim Cook does care about the bloody ROI after all. https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2014/03/07/why-tim...

I’m liking Phil more than I expected to.

Ironically, not really the shill as many would think.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#557
post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we should just eliminate all the laws and instead pass one law that says "don't be evil" and just let the judges/juries make it up as they go. The truth is that you don't believe your own argument. You want LOTS of laws specifying all kinds of unacceptable behaviors in great detail. You only differ from me in where that line should be drawn.

If we ditched "reasonableness" as a legal concept, even the most basic laws like e.g. the ones about murder would be significantly affected. So what you're proposing is a drastic redesign, and the onus is on you to demonstrate that it is even workable. How do you envision the legal system dealing with issues such as intent and negligence without the notion of a "reasonable person"?

> If we ditched "reasonableness" as a legal concept, even the most basic laws like e.g. the ones about murder would be significantly affected. So what you're proposing is a drastic redesign, and the onus is on you to demonstrate that it is even workable.

Reasonableness is a quick approximation for world view or "the majority values and lived experiences of a specific culture at a specific time and place". For example, dueling is considered murder, but was once considered absolutely reasonable and NOT requesting a duel in some circumstances would be considered a "reasonable" sign of guilt.

Would you convict someone of murder over manslaughter because your gut told you they were guilty? The Southern US has countless cases of innocent black men hanged because they had "reasonableness", but no hard evidence.

Reasonableness is fickle. For example, in self defense cases with video (probably the most important cases concerning reasonableness), the prosecution pushes to review the video frame by frame while the defense pushes to play the video in realtime. Why? because when you see the video in realtime and make snap decisions, the defense seems more reasonable. When you pick it apart frame by frame, you have tons of time to think about all the things you might have done and can convince yourself that maybe lethal defense wasn't needed.

If reasonableness changes so much just by HOW you watch the same video, how can it really be considered reasonable? What is does reasonable actually mean in practice?

It's also worth noting that not all evidence is admitted in trials and the judge has significant ability to shape the outcome of the trial based on what evidence they "reasonably" believe should be included.

> How do you envision the legal system dealing with issues such as intent and negligence without the notion of a "reasonable person"?

I'm not proposing something radically different. I'm proposing we use reasonable doubt instead of reasonable intuition as the primary metric. You can never completely remove reasonableness, but its effect should be mitigated and controlled. If you can't prove something, you shouldn't convict based on the unprovable ideas your world view fabricates that may or may not be accurate.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#558
post #26

Their entire setup was egregious. They charge 27% for purchases made using external payment processors. Including Stripe fees that's net-zero (not even accounting for any chargeback risks). They severely limit how you can display the external purchase link too, and display an obnoxious warning screen when you tap it. I would be surprised if a single developer adopted it. https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-e…

From the court document, I don't know how many ended up actually adopting it, but it's about what you'd expect: > As of the May 2024 hearing, only 34 developers out of the approximately 136,000 total developers on the App Store applied for the program, and seventeen of those developers had not offered in-app purchases in the first place. In May 2024, Apple argued that it would take more time for developers to take ad…

This seems like a strange argument to me.

Apple is not just responsible for making it possible to purchase apps outside the App Store, but to convince developers to use it over the App Store as well?

I suppose it's damning when combined with the internal emails demonstrating they were trying to avoid compliance with the ruling?

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#559
post #272

Many people blame the EU for targeting US companies when it passes anti-monopoly and pro-consumer laws, or penalizes the companies for breaking them. Now that US courts are doing it more, it seems that corporations abusing their monopoly powers are the problem, not EU laws. But what do I know.

> Many people

I doubt it's very many, they just are very loud because there is a lot of money behind their complaints.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Mac is living proof. Is Mac as secure as iOS?

No.

The Apple Watch is more secure than an iPhone. I don't think anyone would use that as reasoning to justify the same security model on iOS or Mac though.

At some point, the diminishing returns of "muh security" do obviate positive and pro-consumer change.

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