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Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

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Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#551

Post by hartator »

plumarr wrote: post #289
hartator wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody will throw you in jail in indefinite detention in another country with no human rights because of your skin colour, beard, tattoos or anything of the like. Most EU country police don’t need probable cause to detain you. It does happen to be detained for no reason outside of profiling. For example, in France, you can be sent to jail for up to 24h with no probable cause.

> For example, in France, you can be sent to jail for up to 24h with no probable cause. There must be a probable cause : https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F14837

This is different.

In the US you need probable cause to get pull over or temporary detain you. In France, you don't need probably cause for temporary detaining you, but if they suspect you of something they can also send you to jail. You can't be sent to jail in the US just on them just suspecting something.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#552

Post by saguntum »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #541
DeathArrow wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Before being so casually flippant, perhaps do some basic research on the facility people are being sent to, and the conditions they're being kept in.

The facility is CECOT in case anyone needs a basic search term for this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#553

Post by sofixa »

hartator wrote: post #551
plumarr wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, in France, you can be sent to jail for up to 24h with no probable cause. There must be a probable cause : https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F14837

This is different. In the US you need probable cause to get pull over or temporary detain you. In France, you don't need probably cause for temporary detaining you, but if they suspect you of something they can also send you to jail. You can't be sent to jail in the US just on them just suspecting something.

> You can't be sent to jail in the US just on them just suspecting something.

All the people sitting in an Salvadorian prison for having a shitty tatoo would strongly disagree.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#554

Post by virtualritz »

snappieT wrote: post #505
virtualritz wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends what part of the EU and how you look. For some EU perspective: last summer we traveled with a group of social dancers from Berlin to Pula in Croatia, going to an event at the coast. Croatia joined Schengen in January 2023. We had one couple in the group that where not "white". She is German but her parents are Vietnamese and he is from Syria. They're married, they have German citizenship. They were the…

> For some EU perspective > Serbia is not part of the EU > Racial profiling is everywhere. Also in the EU.

I should have written "for some European perspective". Croatia and Serbia are both part of Europe.

I didn't want to imply this was anyhow tied to Brussels.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#555

Post by brookst »

bilbo0s wrote: post #248
brookst wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t like to talk about it but there were literal, actual Nazi rallies in support of Germany. And not fringe, either — notably one at Madison Square Garden.

In fairness, there are still nazi rallies all across the country. It's them forcing their freedom of assembly and speech rights on everyone. Doesn't necessarily mean everyone in the US today is a nazi. Even the Trump brigade are more fascists than nazis. Not that it's a good thing, just pointing out the distinction.

I have no complaints with the fact that either nazi or fascist rallies are allowed, but I have great objection to what it says about the country that they were/are attended in relatively large numbers.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#556

Post by brookst »

DeathArrow wrote: post #538
brookst wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense if you view it as an intentional effort to demonize the US. Terrorizing visiting tourists is a great way to get the “we are crazy, your best never come here” message out. The simplest explanation is that this administration wants the US to be hated and sees atrocities as an important tool in that effort.

[flagged]

I was thinking more the body cavity searches of tourists that were linked. The indefinite detention of tourists.

Agreed mere deportation is not an atrocity. But that’s not what’s going on here.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#557

Post by throwaway5752 »

DeathArrow wrote: post #530
throwaway5752 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

They didn't simply expel them, the sent them to a foreign prison. Don't misrepresent what occurred. And Kilmar Abrego Garcia is a legal resident. They are doing this to people who _do_ have the right to stay. Even for those who are in the US illegally, they are entitled to basic human rights and have protections under US law. They can be deported in accordance with domestic and international law.

Sending them to foreign prison camps instead is in fact a crime against humanity.

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#558

Post by rsynnott »

DeathArrow wrote: post #335
alxlaz wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ this. Once (oh, actually twice!) while travelling, I have had entirely benign trouble with paperwork (things like not filling a form correctly on the first attempt). Explaining the circumstances to someone who has to figure out if you're scatter-brained, unlucky, or an actual criminal, isn't particularly fun, but it's been entirely professional and civilised. We resolved it all in about half an hour. Didn't even mi…

So you genuinely think that if you go to the US you have a high risk of being imprisoned without due process even if you you don't break any US law?

It’s probably low enough, but if you go to a proper country it’s essentially zero, so, really, particularly for leisure travel, why take the chance?

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#559

Post by sillywalk »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #228
ornornor wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren’t a lot of jails private and for profit? Just bill the tourist for the stay and detain until they pay in full (accruing even more debt in the meantime). It makes perfect business sense which is all that seems to matter to the US nowadays.

ICE sure isn't. That is tax payer money at work, sadly. But yes, there are incentives that do reward cells and even individuals for number of imprisonments. And no, they do not check nor punish "administrative errors".

> ICE sure isn't. That is tax payer money at work, sadly.

Taxpayers are paying the private companies, but they're very much for profit.

About that:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2025/01/29/billi...

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/03/private-prison-...

https://afsc.org/newsroom/ice-signs-massive-contract-profit-...

Re: Foreign visits into the U.S. fell off a cliff in March

#560

Post by rsynnott »

DeathArrow wrote: post #381
palata wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the President of the United States threatens to invade ex-allies, I don't think that the threatened people give a shit about what the American people think about it. The fact that this guy is the President means that most Americans were not against it, right? Of course most Americans don't want random people detained. But still, this is happening in the US. And one thing that I believe is absolutely clear outsid…

[flagged]

Minihands. Canada, Greenland, Panama.
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