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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

whitehouse.gov

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Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#551

Post by bagels »

shostack wrote: post #541
codewench wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing prevents the next president from having a radically different opinion. Of course, this is only relevant if they are interested in having a 'next' president, something which it seems a segment of society is less than open to.

Trump has explicitly said it's the last time people will have to vote. I don't know why people are glossing over this. He intends to take full control and never give it up. The time to act is now, not when he announces some emergency that is a thin excuse to cancel elections.

"He didn't really mean it" isn't really playing out so well.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#552

Post by api »

intreble wrote: post #525
api wrote: post #460

My high level take on this saga is: welcome to the Chinese century. It's very common for companies that are failing to adopt uncreative reactive strategies that hasten their collapse. Look at the history of Kodak for some good examples. MAGA is that for the United States -- respond to the challenges of the new century by going back to the 1950s. MAGA (and Project 2025) is going to turbocharge American decline. The pa…

Here is the crux. If during this time they also dismantle the checks and balances that allow a stable democracy to exist then they transition into chaos. Chaos creates a very convenient excuse to establish martial law. This is accelerated if the people rise up to protest the dismantling of democracy. Martial law leads to suspension of elections, ipso facto, the loss of democracy.

Agreed -- which will vastly accelerate the collapse of the US empire since everyone around the world will start diversifying away even faster. If this kind of scenario happens then USD hyperinflationary collapse is on the table.

The Heritage Foundation might get their Gilead LARP in the form of a hollowed out declining US whose young and high-skill people are pouring across the border in the 'out' direction. Meanwhile China is cracking AGI and fusion and landing on Mars with an improved clone of Starship built for 1/2 the price.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#553

Post by Judgmentality »

jjkaczor wrote: post #540
arunabha wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to believe(perhaps naively) that the segment of population which genuinely believes in doing away with democracy is pretty small. However, in case such an event comes to pass, what is far more important is the segment which actively opposes such a power grab. Authoritarians reply on the passiveness of the majority coupled with a small but very vocal and rabid fan base. It's quite possible that a slow and…

It's about 70 million as of the last count in November.

There are some odd patterns in the voting data. I'm not saying this is proof, but it's definitely weird.

https://electiontruthalliance.org/clark-county%2C-nv

https://www.thenumbersarewrong2024.com/across-the-us/swing-s...

Then combine that with all the election interference we know Elon was doing, and previous years of being concerned about the security of voting machines.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crlnjzzk919o

https://apnews.com/article/election-security-voting-machines...

There are reasons to think the votes may have been tampered with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42994293

This was previously discussed on HN before getting flagged like most political topics.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#554

Post by rurp »

cpitman wrote: post #475
generic92034 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eventually, and in fact about 50% of the time - the OTHER team is in power.. and may just push the overreach further. Are you sure this is going to be a fact, in the future? How likely is it, that the next elections will still be (somewhat) fair?

Very. Election officials, across states and across parties, have been faithfully discharging their duties, often under pressure to not do so. This is a responsibility of the states, and not the federal government. If you're concerned, then work as a poll officer on election day. In Virginia, I get to participate an incredibly professional and structured process that makes it easy for everyone who can vote to vote and…

Past performance is no guarantee of future results. This administration is already much more aggressive and corrupt than the previous go around. Trump has been abundantly clear that he does not like or respect democracy and he might very well have the power to end it now. Congress's authority is already being usurped in blatant ways and they are openly talking about not following court orders. If they completely toss the courts aside and survive the resulting backlash (very likely) our system of government as we know it is over.

The conditions for this are being set as we watch. Dictators always prize loyalty above competence, which is exactly what our current leader is doing.

I don't doubt that nearly everyone involved in managing our recent elections are conscientious and professional, but what are they going to do if a bunch of troops with guns show up to change the results?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#555

Post by ceejayoz »

dizzant wrote: post #543
arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

In the second quote, the phrases "in their official capacity" and "as the position of the United States" are doing a lot of heavy lifting. The EO is going out of its way to broadcast that its purpose is to establish a unitary policy position of the executive branch that stems from the President, rather than having "independent" agencies providing contrary position from within "in their official capacity" "as the posi…

> The disincentives that have always prevented the executive from blatantly violating the law are still in force and unchanged.

We’re just gonna pretend Trump v. United States, 603 U.S. 593 (2024) doesn’t exist, are we?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#556

Post by UncleOxidant »

arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

> setting up the president as the sole power center is an inherently unstable system.

Autocracies can be very stable... for a while depending on how much people are able to protest (or not). You could argue that N Korea has been "stable" (from the standpoint of the ruling family) for over 60 years.

> There is a very good reason why the founding fathers built in an elaborate system of checks and balances.

Sure that's what we were all taught in school. But it turns out that the whole system is heavily dependent on the executive branch "doing the right thing". But what good is it for the Judicial or Legislative branches to rule against the executive when the executive is in charge of enforcement? Even Nixon was eventually able to be shamed into doing the right thing, but if we have a president who can't be shamed into doing the right thing... well, I suspect we're about to find out, but my guess is that the checks and balances aren't going to be effective.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#558

Post by wavemode »

fireflash38 wrote: post #477
ike2792 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the crux of the issue. Executive power has been gradually expanded since at least the end of WWII, but things have accelerated since the early 00's. Think GWB's "signing statements" or Obama's "phone and pen." Trump I, Biden, and now Trump II have continued to push the limits, in part because of a desire for more power but also because Congress hasn't functioned as an institution in decades. Congress has pass…

Congress needs to be expanded to do its job, and drop the filibuster. We need more, proportionally allocated representatives. Representatives that come from more than one of two parties. Representatives that spend more time at home than on the campaign trail or in DC.

Representatives with term limits. It blows my mind that someone can be a career congressperson. It creates precisely the same adverse incentives as being a career president. Your whole focus becomes making sure you stay in power. Which for congresspeople means toeing the party line.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#559

Post by ceejayoz »

xnx wrote: post #549
nielsbot wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who will enforce following the law if the executive branch ignores the judicial? In theory the military is sworn to defend the constitution, but if the DOD is headed by a Trump loyalist (it is), then what?

> Who will enforce following the law if the executive branch ignores the judicial? Congress through impeachment. If they don't do that, all bets are off.

But who enforces impeachment? Who evicts the President?
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