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20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

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Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#551

Post by adastra22 »

verzali wrote: post #531
adastra22 wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Tesla and SpaceX are insanely profitable.

SpaceX is not insanely profitable. Starlink might become so, but it isn't yet.

Only because they're funneling every dollar they earn into Starship. But as Starship contributes absolutely nothing to current revenue, excluding those costs is the only fair apples-to-apples comparison. We don't know their exact costs because SpaceX is still a private company, but estimates are on the order of 60% profit margin across their business lines.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#552

Post by adastra22 »

verzali wrote: post #529
adastra22 wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average age of everyone in the room at Mission Control during Apollo 11 was 28. The managers in the room were outliers (e.g. Gene Kranz was 36), which drew the average up. The median age was younger. The Manhattan Project was made possible by similarly young grad students. You can be as crusty as you like, but the reality is that young smart people can be extraordinarily effective under the right conditions.

Flight controllers execute the mission, but they also rely on the engineers who built the things and wrote the procedures. Flight controllers often are young, even today and even in control centres outside SpaceX. The engineers designing and building the systems tend to be a bit older.

Not in the Apollo days they weren't. They were almost all straight out of engineering school.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#553

Post by nkurz »

Jtsummers wrote: post #541
Jtsummers wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am certain of my decision to resign and my choice to resign is fully voluntary. I understand my employing agency will likely make adjustments in response to my resignation including moving, eliminating, consolidating, reassigning my position and tasks, reducing my official duties, and/or placing me on paid administrative leave until my resignation date. From https://www.opm.gov/fork/ That is what resigners agree…

https://www.opm.gov/media/xmxfp34k/opm-memo-legality-of-defe... Best source for information on this since the FAQ disagrees with the memo and the contents of the letter. > Yes. The decision to grant administrative leave, and for how long, lies largely within the agency’s discretion. That's the official OPM guidance on this, where they're saying that you may have to work and that it is up to the agency and not OPM.

Thanks, this does seem to be a much clearer statement. I appreciate the followup!

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#554

Post by insane_dreamer »

Update on this: NYTimes today reported that

> Later in the agreement, it makes clear that any of the administration’s obligations “are subject to the availability of appropriations.”

In other words, if it's not in an upcoming deal to raise the debt ceiling, then it won't necessarily be funded. As many in this thread have speculated, it is not guaranteed.

Federal workers, proceed at your own risk.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#555

Post by jmclnx »

TMWNN wrote: post #304
jmclnx wrote: post #188

As someone who has been offered similar buy-outs, the one presented here is a poor deal. I would not have taken that one unless I already had a job waiting for me.

In what universe, public or private, is nine months of pay a poor deal for a buyout?

BTW it is 8 months.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-buyouts-to-all-federal-empl...

But does this include benefits ? How about contributions to the pension, what will be the pension benefits when you retire ? Will you be fully vested when you leave ? What happens to your security clearance (if you have one)

There are many unknowns, so to me, if you work for the federal gov, you would be insane to take this package. Unless of course you already have a guaranteed Job you can start when you leave.

Plus many IRS employees tried to take this package and was denied, now the Fed has a list of employees that want to leave. Will they be fired once Tax season is over without the 8 month package ?

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#556

Post by rstuart4133 »

adastra22 wrote: post #507
rstuart4133 wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla was very profitable. Gross Margin is 14% now of revenue now. 1/4 of their their $8B profit is emissions credits. That's not shabby and they have lowish debt ($20B). But it isn't what I'd call insane. Google's gross margin is 58%, profit is $349B.

I'm not sure why you're comparing the gross margin of a car company to an internet company. General Motors has a gross margin of 10%. Ford's is 7%. Historically Tesla's was ~25%, but yeah it's fallen a bit since I last looked.

> I'm not sure why you're comparing the gross margin of a car company to an internet company.

Because the benchmark set was "insane". I agree no car company gets insane profitability levels. Tesla was never insanely profitable by most metrics.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#558

Post by encoderer »

ModernMech wrote: post #548
transcriptase wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m certain you felt the exact same way when Biden spent his first weeks in office doing the exact same thing, issuing executive orders to systemically reverse everything Trump did in 4 years. It must have been deeply upsetting when the White House press secretary was asked at the time why he was skipping congress, and she said that Biden was not going to “delay action” by going the legislative route. And I’m sure yo…

Biden was my 10th option for POTUS, and I felt about his overreach the same way I feel about Trump's. But Biden is gone, Trump is POTUS, and what Trump is doing still represents a new overreach into territory that, again, the other side would not like if it were applied to them, yet you seem to be reveling in it. > It must have been deeply upsetting when the White House press secretary yes. > And I’m sure you’ll feel…

Possibly you’re a victim of the super polarized environment today but this is hard to believe. You’ve written dozens of comments attacking the current administration. How much ink did you spill over Biden 4 years ago?

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#559

Post by staticman2 »

ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #534
staticman2 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is confidently wrong. The requirements for contracting with the federal government are nothing like the requirements between private citizens. There are specific statutory procedures which must be followed for an enforceable government contract, including but not limited to congressional funding.

Maybe I should have quoted the part I was disagreeing with, but I thought I had made it clear. >And you think that an offer accepted by sending an email with "Resign" in the subject line is subject to these protections? I'm saying that if you say "accept this agreement by sending 'Resign' in the subject line" and someone does so, that's a legally valid offer and acceptance of a contract. Are standards higher for the…

Yes there are higher standards.

Here's a quick blurb from a law firm blog, notice the "acts at its peril" language which is not the standard for private citizens contracting together:

"Authority Issues. Contract awards and contract modifications may be made on behalf of the government only by duly appointed contracting officers acting within the limits of both available funding and their delegated authority. This public policy principle of limited authority is strongly supported in the law. To the extent that a company incurs costs based upon the directions or promises of government persons without this essential authority, the company does so at its financial risk. Moreover, the contractor has the responsibility to know the scope of authority of the government official with whom it deals, and acts at its peril."

https://www.crowell.com/en/insights/publications/the-risks-a...

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#560

Post by [deleted] »

protocolture wrote: post #476
staticman2 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a "lawful direction" if the order is illegal.

You would have to go pretty far to prove to a standard I would accept that "Go work from home, and do nothing, we will keep paying you" is an illegal order. Firstly: Its telling these people to work from their principle place of work, their home. Something thats been commonplace since covid. Secondly, "Do Nothing" seems like a very legal thing for these people to be doing. I suspect that theres not a court in the lan…

[deleted]
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