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The correct amount of ads is zero

manuelmoreale.com

551–560 of 611 posts

Re: The correct amount of ads is zero

#551

To me, being anti-ads is being anti-poor, plain and simple. The advertising model makes the rich subsidize services for the poor, and I think that's a very good thing, and many people underappreciate the extend to which it happens. On that note, I'm somewhat annoyed that we're culturally ok with people who use online services and block ads, and yet we're not ok with people who ride on public transit and don't buy tic…

No, because you can believe that the poor needs to be subsidized but disagree that ad-tech is the right approach. The poor also does not have the money to buy expensive books, but that is why we have libraries funded by tax money - placing banner ads in the middle of textbooks would be a dystopia, but somehow we are more okay with it if the content is digital.

> placing banner ads in the middle of textbooks would be a dystopia

The far-less capitalist, far more revered society that is Germany actually did this, far before the age of surveillance capitalism.

Not sure about textbooks speficically, but it was definitely a thing with fiction, to the point of editing foreign books so that the ad would form part of the plot.

See e.g. https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/2011/09/02/terry-pratchett-and...

Re: The correct amount of ads is zero

#552
The problem is that eventually, AI will get so powerful that it will block all ads on the client without anyway of detecting it. Adblockers today are very basic and have no understanding of the mind that is consuming the content. We must adapt and create new business models.

Re: The correct amount of ads is zero

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are ads and in many jurisdictions Also treated like ads. Weird that This is not the case in the US?

If you grew up in Europe, I promise that when you visit the US for the first time, you will be SHOCKED by America's advertising standards (or lack of them.) Advertising is everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, to an extent far beyond what you're used to from home. Posters, billboards, fliers, TV commercials, product placement, celebrity endorsements - you can barely step outside without being bombarded by y…

I have been to the US on numerous occasions - and do like it!

My main curiosity was about the legal classification of product placement etc.

Re: The correct amount of ads is zero

#555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if they didn't issue that as new Ts & Cs. If they just changed the service he should get his money back for an unagreed change of service.

My personal T&Cs say websites don't get to show me any ads. Websites continue to agree to those T&Cs by sending me content.

Hah yes, a bit like "Kia agree to let me steal their cars by making cars so stealable".

Re: The correct amount of ads is zero

#556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you use a different definition you can acknowledge that someone else has a different view, and your original "if you don't like it, don't buy it" argument does not hold for that person. Internet ads can in theory be turned on or off per user, it's no rocket science, so you could opt-in and everybody could be happy.

>>and your original "if you don't like it, don't buy it" argument does not hold for that person ....I don't recall making such an argument? Maybe you replied to the wrong person?

Yes, I'm sorry, I made a mistake.

Re: The correct amount of ads is zero

#557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody spent ten dollars, so they must have a ton of disposable income that they're just itching to throw around? Let's be honest what it's really about: Most hackers / computer enthusiasts are cheap skates and if there's an opportunity to get something for free instead of paying a dollar, they will spend hours or days to get it for free. They are highly insulted by the thought that anything on the internet would c…

> Somebody spent ten dollars, so they must have a ton of disposable income that they're just itching to throw around? Very much yes. > Most hackers / computer enthusiasts are cheap skates and if there's an opportunity to get something for free instead of paying a dollar, they will spend hours or days to get it for free. Not really. But consider you're talking about two distinct groups here. Being a "hacker" / "comput…

> Being a "hacker" / "computer enthusiast" is one of the cheapest hobbies possible

Could you explain this better? It certainly used to be one of the most expensive hobbies possible, and still today you need devices that are not free. Compared to many sports who are essentially free, as long as you have shoes.

> Not "they" the "hackers / computer enthusiasts", and not insulted. Rather, it's general population that got culturally used to things on the Internet being free.

You're making a very good point. Still, the general population will just give up or pay if they cannot get what they want for free. If they're given an option like Spotify or Netflix, they will uninstall Kazaa and DC++. Hackers will spend endless effort setting up their Plex servers, and write endless paragraphs on why they shouldn't pay for a cheap subscription.

> Obviously, almost everyone younger than ~50 got exposed to the Internet when they were too young to have any income

Hackers started living on the internet when they were young and penniless, while the general population started living on the internet since about 10 years ago. I'd argue that they don't even consider their Netflix, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok to be "the internet".

> However, one of the most reliable signals here is spending. People buying stuff have money to buy stuff. The more frivolously the buy, the more money they have that could be redirected to other frivolous purchases. And that's the whole thing advertising is after - redirecting people's purchasing decisions.

I mean, in my experience the more "premium" an environment is, the less advertising you see. Both in the physical world and the cyber world. When I go to an expensive restaurant, they don't have banners with their special deals. When I watch a National Geographic documentary on YouTube premium, there are no sponsor breaks.

> "Free" is the singularity of commerce, it breaks competition; "free but subsidized by ads" is an anti-competitive business model. It won not because people demanded it, but because no one can compete with it.

"Free" breaks the mind of most people. If people were given the option between the best beer in the world for $10 and a low quality beer for free, almost everybody would choose the free beer. If they were given the option of a great beer for a dollar or free low quality beer, they would be lining up around the block for the free beer. But there's always a segment of people who are resistant to the allure of "free" and spend a few bucks for something better. That doesn't mean they're rich. It just means they value their time and mind more.

Re: The correct amount of ads is zero

#558

Stances like this probably feel good to write out, but they miss the reality that when running a media business, relying on one revenue stream is dangerous. That’s why newspapers had classified ads, even though they charged a nominal fee to subscribe. People won’t pay $5 a day to subscribe to a newspaper, but the ads subsidize enough of it to make it so that a paid subscription is accessible to more people. On the in…

>Most companies do not offer a reduced ad load in exchange for your subscription money. And the never ending struggle to increase/maintain subscriptions for some companies probably has something to do with that. For me personally, and I expect a not insignificant portion of users, paying for a subscription is primarily to remove advertising completely. Anything else means its not worth subscribing, so not offering th…

> For me personally, and I expect a not insignificant portion of users, paying for a subscription is primarily to remove advertising completely.

I also put quite a bit of effort into removing ads from my and my family's eyeballs. I hate them. But because of that I already don't see ads on The Verge so for me a sub isn't about removing ads at all. I'll sub to support the work and whatever other perks come along with it (full-text RSS for one)

Re: The correct amount of ads is zero

#559
post #398

Stances like this probably feel good to write out, but they miss the reality that when running a media business, relying on one revenue stream is dangerous. That’s why newspapers had classified ads, even though they charged a nominal fee to subscribe. People won’t pay $5 a day to subscribe to a newspaper, but the ads subsidize enough of it to make it so that a paid subscription is accessible to more people. On the in…

> It also reduces the cost of the subscription for you, the end user. But I don't want to pay less. I want my data to not be sold to the highest bidder, that's all. As it stands there's no option for people like me other than not subscribing. This is very much like the situation with smartphones these days: they cost less because you get a bunch of bloatware that you can't uninstall. I don't want that on my device, s…

> I want my data to not be sold to the highest bidder, that's all.

sigh I wish this was easier to achieve. But at least in the case of The Verge the sub removes third party ads so it should increase privacy even if it doesn't remove all the ads.

Re: The correct amount of ads is zero

#560
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube does not do it. You stop seeing youtube's ads, which are obnoxious, but you still see the actual content author's ads.

Yeah this is the problem. You still need sponsorblock to make it watchable even if you subscribe. Then you might as well go the full way and adblock. If YouTube would force content creators to upload sponsor-free versions for premium subscribers, the subscription might actually be worth it.

It'd be nice if, at the very least, they were asked to be upfront and put a "sponsored" disclaimer on titles so we could make an informed choice.
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