The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community • Hacker News Board

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#551

Post by Aerbil313 » Sat, Aug 03, 2024, 3:51 AM UTC

nineplay wrote: post #382

mensetmanusman wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all religious societies are like that. Doing it properly looks more like exercise towards a higher good than fear of failure.

I think it's unavoidable in Christianity. Even if one's immediate religious society doesn't believe in hell, it is trivially easy to find other societies which do, and other societies that believe that everyone is damned except for people who've accepted the 'right' concept in the 'right' way. I can't tell you how relieved I was when I realized I could become an Atheist and mostly put the matter out of my mind. Quick…

The universal human intuition of the concept of God is equally valid as the human intuitions on causality that stands as the ultimate fundamentals of modern science. Math is the mother of all sciences, philosophy the root of math, human intuitions the root of philosophy. The very psychologist under his article we're talking, Jonathan Haidt, have proven this, that the concept of God exists from birth even in Japanese kids raised in Shinto culture, commenting 'extraordinary' on his research being an atheist himself.

There's no point in favoring one natural human intuition over the other.

Then the number of people througout history who claimed to have taken revelation from God must be evaluated for authenticity of their miracles, one of which can still be verified today as his entire life is preserved through formal chain of transmissions: Muhammad (pbuh). Jesus, we can't even agree on the exact wording of the revelation he received let alone his life.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#552

Post by XorNot » Sat, Aug 03, 2024, 3:51 AM UTC

Dalewyn wrote: post #538

paulryanrogers wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I frankly find marriage to be nothing short of a human rights violation anyway. Just curious, but how could marriage be a rights violation?

First the axiom so we're all on the same page: I truly and wholeheartedly agree with and believe in the notion that life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are unalienable rights. Marriage is many things, but chief among them is that marriage is an inevitable compromise of each others' liberties and therein lies the violation. Who am I to compromise my would-be wife's unalienable right to liberty? Who is my would-be…

> I consider the entire premise of marriage is that it is a permanent thing until death do us part.

Right so you invented a notion of marriage which doesn't apply in the society you live in and then invented a problem created by that invented supposition.

This all sounds very normal.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#553

Post by lolinder » Sat, Aug 03, 2024, 3:52 AM UTC

Aerbil313 wrote: post #541

nineplay wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you mean, I grew up in a church with a youth group and group friends which I valued. However I also grew up with constant anxiety about sin and hell. It still gets back to me when my insomnia is bad. So churches and church membership aren't necessarily a net-positive. I too wish there was some sort of community my family could belong to. But I'm not taking my kids to church anytime soon.

Between Christianity as a false religion with its unintuitive teachings ultimately and rationally leading to atheism and the modern American way of life with its freedom extremism at the expense of everything elde, there's a third, albeit unthinkable to many, option: Islam. We're doing great in terms of societal bonds.

Please don't start religious flame wars.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#554

Post by randomdata » Sat, Aug 03, 2024, 4:12 AM UTC

brightball wrote: post #31

I have to assume that people leaving their home towns to work elsewhere is a huge driving factor of all of this.

Few, and increasingly fewer, move far from where they were born.

Why do the outliers who do move around become a huge driving factor for the larger population here?

Why does the decline in the driving force bring an apparent increase in the effects?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#555

Post by maeil » Sat, Aug 03, 2024, 4:14 AM UTC

StopTheWorld wrote: post #145

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

Professor Michael Rosenfeld at Stanford does research on how heterosexual couples in the US meet ( https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/ ). In 1940, over 50% met via friends or family. About 36% met at school. In 2021, about 20% met via friends or family. About 10% met at school. Over 50% met online. So the majority of US couples are now meeting via profit-maximizing corporations. He has a 2019 paper on this (and it ha…

FWIW here in Korea the 1940 statistic still holds, yet I don't think youth mental health is any better.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#556

Post by n8henrie » Sat, Aug 03, 2024, 4:28 AM UTC

kahmeal wrote: post #295

conductr wrote: post #110

I’m so glad it’s finally happening but also it’s wild to me this conversation feels like it’s just beginning. The Anxious Generation book seems to have been what was needed for people to see what, to me anyways, was common sense and actually question their silly iPad at 6months old parenting styles. As it’s picking up steam, I’ve been hearing stories recently about how our local “school district decided to ban phones…

>I say all this as a parent of an almost 6 year old boy, doing everything I can to shield him from the wacky parenting style that seems to be the norm and provide him places of community and activities away from screens. He won’t have a phone until he drives, or maybe just a basic flip phone if we think we need a communication line to reach him when he’s a bit older. This is possibly a bit extreme, imo. In a world th…

What part of the above seems most "extreme" to you? It seems fairly reasonable.

I'm guessing it's the "no phone..." part, but that's what seems most important to me. Having an always-available endless entertainment device is a powerful drug. There is a reason we disallow nicotine, alcohol, and cannabis until brains have reached a certain level of maturity / development.

My oldest is 8. He rocks Manjaro and loves (open source) games. We do python lessons together, even though I'm only a hobbyist myself. But compared to the above poster I also have similar goals / limitations for screentime that we try (and struggle) to adhere to, and my wife and I don't plan to allow a smartphone for our son until high school at the earliest.

I don't think disallowing a smartphone is an extreme parenting move. But perhaps I'm misinterpreting what you thought was extreme?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#557

Post by medion » Sat, Aug 03, 2024, 4:34 AM UTC

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

Capitalism has made its way into absolutely everything. Every piece of modern life is financialised and transactional. It is sad and sickening and weird how few even notice it.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#558

Post by relwin » Sat, Aug 03, 2024, 4:37 AM UTC

Yhippa wrote: post #528

crooked-v wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major issues with libraries these days is that because a lot of cities want to pretend really hard that homelessness doesn't exist, libraries end up as the only social resource available to many homeless people, which leads to other people avoiding them.

In a few of the local libraries near me homeless people occupy the bank of public computers and are frequently watching hardcore pornography. I'm terrified of my young children seeing that.

My local library employs internet filters, similar to parental control software for your home. This seems to significantly reduce porn watching.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#559

Post by parineum » Sat, Aug 03, 2024, 4:42 AM UTC

theossuary wrote: post #508

ip26 wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would call that the difference between a small town and a city, which isn't new. You establish those ties because you see the same grocer regularly - there's only two grocers in town, after all. Meanwhile, in the city, you could buy groceries twice a week and never see the same clerk twice.

This isn't the difference between a small town and city, it's the inevitable result of late stage capitalism. In cities it's still possible to go to small stores and create connection with your local grocer, butcher, etc. I purposefully do it, but I have to seek out the places it's still possible, they're dwindling every year. The problem is capitalism wants to consolidate and treat people as fungible to extract more…

Capitalism isn't a person, it doesn't want things.

The problem with people that talk about capitalism the way you do is that they mistake human nature for the system that was built around it so when they try to change the system, the people are maladapted and transgress against it by default then it fails miserably.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#560

Post by svieira » Sat, Aug 03, 2024, 4:44 AM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #532

svieira wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a Christian I think Hell is often looked at the wrong way. It's easy to fall into, yes, but not because "you're just doing it wrong" but because "you want to". I can't speak for other denominations than Catholic, but no one goes to Hell because they just-didn't-know. They go to Hell because they want to serve someone other than God. The reason to be afraid isn't "here's someone who's just waiting for you…

Ah yes, I "wanted to" think of hell as a lake of eternal fire that most of humanity, likely myself included, would be thrown into and gawked at by the virtuous. Certainly had nothing to do with what I was indoctrinated with from birth. You realize you literally are telling us we are "just doing it wrong"? Worse, that we're doing it wrong because we want to ?! Hell is a fantasy that causes more mental illness than any…

"Fall into" was a reference to the act of choosing "something other than God" in a permanent way (that is, "fall into Hell") not the act of being afraid of punishment (that is "fall into fear of Hell"). I am sorry that you have had to deal with such a fear!