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No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

robkhenderson.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#551

Post by illiac786 »

jjk166 wrote: post #443
RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This whole article is talking about absentee fathers, but every example is listing why the mother left or kicked out the father. Because the article takes the very rational and supported by the article side that these mothers were actually founded in kicking them out. > The article also simply takes for granted that it's a bad thing that these nuclear families do not stay together. No, the article goes much further…

> It points out that upper-class and middle-class people like to pretend and promote that the nuclear family doesn't matter while themselves acting like it does. Rich people say you don't need a yacht. Yet, rich people buy yachts. Clearly yachts are very important for becoming and staying rich, and the wealthy are undermining the poor with their "yachts are a luxury" posturing. It is to be expected that people encoun…

This is not what the parent wrote.

Not having a yacht is not like “having a worse yacht by xyz criteria”, hence that comparison just does not work. There is always a family.

I personally agree with the parent here, it might be helpful to read the article again.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#552

Post by relaxing »

bdjsiqoocwk wrote: post #514
relaxing wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh gtfo. No woman is desperate enough for food to put up with shitty dates. They have shelters for those cases.

Yikes, you're pretty sheltered.

I have many female friends. I hear a lot of worry about avoiding bad dates, not only for their sanity but also for their physical safety. I don’t hear them bragging about free meals.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#553

Post by jjk166 »

illiac786 wrote: post #551
jjk166 wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It points out that upper-class and middle-class people like to pretend and promote that the nuclear family doesn't matter while themselves acting like it does. Rich people say you don't need a yacht. Yet, rich people buy yachts. Clearly yachts are very important for becoming and staying rich, and the wealthy are undermining the poor with their "yachts are a luxury" posturing. It is to be expected that people encoun…

This is not what the parent wrote. Not having a yacht is not like “having a worse yacht by xyz criteria”, hence that comparison just does not work. There is always a family. I personally agree with the parent here, it might be helpful to read the article again.

Okay fine.

Rich people say your car doesn't need to be a Lamborghini, a Toyota Corolla is fine. Yet, rich people buy Lamborghinis. A Toyota Corolla is a worse car by xyz criteria. Clearly having a better car is very important for becoming and staying rich, and the wealthy are undermining the poor with their "you don't need a sports car" posturing.

I think it would be helpful for you to reread the article, specifically:

> Norms were loosened around being an absentee father. So more men took the option.

> But nobody wants to admit it because it upsets people.

> Instead, we retreat to discussions of poverty and economics because talking about family and parenting makes people feel weird and judgmental.

> But young men will only do what’s expected of them.

> And a lot did use to be expected. There were social norms to work hard, provide, take care of loved ones, and so on.

> Today, these norms have largely dissolved.

> Young men have responded accordingly.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#554

Post by jjk166 »

lazyeye wrote: post #391
jjk166 wrote: post #322

This whole article is talking about absentee fathers, but every example is listing why the mother left or kicked out the father. Nowhere in the article is mentioned the obvious common denominator - women are no longer utterly dependent on their husbands. People didn't stay together more often in the 50s because the couples were better, or because people were held to higher standards, it was because getting out of a t…

Im guessing you're one of these people described in the article that had a stable, family upbringing?

Your guess is incorrect, though I could be Mr. Roger's kid and that wouldn't change the data.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#555

Post by jjk166 »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #529
lazyeye wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im guessing you're one of these people described in the article that had a stable, family upbringing?

I would assume that to be true as well. As someone who had only one parent available, this is an annoyingly trite opinion. Of course socioeconomic effects contribute as well, this is again trivial.

You've misunderstood the claim, which is not that socioeconomic effects contribute, but that they dominate.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#556

Post by jjk166 »

b800h wrote: post #507
jjk166 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://theconversation.com/having-a-single-parent-doesnt-de...

I'm slightly cautious about that contribution. The author describes the focus of her work as being that of 'changing society', albeit largely on encouraging breastfeeding. If someone is a campaigner rather than a disinterested researcher then their words should be treated as such, especially outside of formal research pieces.

You don't need to take the author's word for it. The blue text are links to the formal research pieces being cited.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#557

Post by bufferoverflow »

squigz wrote: post #519
bufferoverflow wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your source of truth other than polling women and watching their actual choices?

We're not talking about "polling", which is an actual process that needs to be done properly for the results to be worth considering. YT videos that women upload - or even worse, compilations of TikTok videos and whatnot - don't follow that process.

You didn't answer the question.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#558

Post by kohbo »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #518
bluefirebrand wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, mass shootings are increasing as well That would seem to qualify as "boiling over" to a certain extent to me

That is a US centric issue. There are a lot of "unhappy men" in the rest of the western societies as well, and no atrocities like that. Thankfully.

Mass stabbings then

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#559

Post by squigz »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #557
squigz wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not talking about "polling", which is an actual process that needs to be done properly for the results to be worth considering. YT videos that women upload - or even worse, compilations of TikTok videos and whatnot - don't follow that process.

You didn't answer the question.

Yes, I did, it just wasn't explicit - my 'source of truth' is actual polls.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#560

Post by squigz »

big-green-man wrote: post #478
Doches wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being emotionally available, participating in chores, providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time, being reasonably well-read and good conversationalist, etc. I...honestly cannot tell if this is meant ironically. Those things seem like table stakes for being an adult. It's not "expecting more of them" to simply expect people to...grow up, and help care for the other people in their lives. You w…

Being the perfect adult is table stakes ? This description is the ideal middle class man. If that's table stakes to you, either you've got one hell of a catch or you've got a few more years left before you settle. Most adults, full grown adults, men and women, don't meet all those requirements. I do, most don't.

My dude, if you think that's the 'perfect adult', whew... That is, absolutely, the bare minimum for an adult friend, let alone a romantic partner.

Let's just break this down to be clear as to what you think the 'perfect adult' is:

- Being emotionally available

- participating in chores

- providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time

- being reasonably well-read

- good conversationalist

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