10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023 • Hacker News Board

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#551

Post by goatlover » Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 4:44 AM UTC

Tao3300 wrote: post #483

gwervc wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may throw a Godwin point as introduction, it doesn't change the fact that some groups indeed doesn't integrate well into France. And this is despite billions of welfare money given for housing, free education, free access to health, etc. You mentioned Gypsies, well I read scholarly work stating that they were warmly welcomed 4 centuries ago in the towns of my region, until people discovered a tendency of their pu…

And that's what we call racism. > scholarly work stating that they were warmly welcomed 4 centuries ago Yeah, that doesn't sound legit. Any general sentiment from that time period is lost, and the best your scholar can do is project the lens of the present onto sources from the past. To be fair, all histories are done that way.

That's not true. The best scholars can do is figure out the lens the past sources were using, given the historical record about the time period. Take for example contemporary scholarship and the historical Jesus. It's now understood Jesus was a 2nd Temple apocalyptic Jew. Something nobody is today, since 2nd Temple Judaism and it's sects were replaced by Rabbinic Judaism, and Christianity went in it's own direction.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#552

Post by anon291 » Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 4:44 AM UTC

hnpolicestate wrote: post #284

labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

What if * some* highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties. Most people globally aren't used to the American interpretation of free speech or gun rights. I don't want people coming here using their talents to politically remove my rights. I think this is a fair point to make.

Yeah personally I'm completely uninterested in skilled immigration.

I think the only determining factor is if you demonstrate a commitment to American values.

We do not need highly skilled authoritarians. I'd rather get the freedom loving farm worker from Mexico.

I'm a Republican if that matters. I have met enough highly skilled immigrants in silicon valley to know that many hold American values in contempt.

My own family migrated here so this is not xenophobia. Many of my own ethnic background actively misunderstand and misconstrue American values and should never be allowed to work here much less given citizenship.

I have much more in common with the Hispanic farm worker and would prefer to provide a path by which they can come legally through a vetting process which also prevents gang members from flowing in.

Also we obviously need a wall on the southern border. I feel like anyone who's been to the border will come to this conclusion if they're being honest with themselves.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#553

Post by anon291 » Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 4:45 AM UTC

vaidhy wrote: post #354

hnpolicestate wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if * some* highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties. Most people globally aren't used to the American interpretation of free speech or gun rights. I don't want people coming here using their talents to politically remove my rights. I think this is a fair point to make.

Are American values static? If not, how did they change over time? Was it some group that used their capital and political organization to make the changes? If so, why is it ok for one group to advocate for a change, but the similar advocacy from another group is not ok? Just for introspection..

American values are... Pretty much static. We've been very anti government for a very long time. Left, right, center... Everyone solidly agrees they need less governance

Leftists will scream about civil rights.

Right wingers will tut tut about high taxes.

Centrists will complain about both.

But the message is clear... Less government. More individual autonomy

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#554

Post by anon291 » Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 4:47 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #296

hnpolicestate wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if * some* highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties. Most people globally aren't used to the American interpretation of free speech or gun rights. I don't want people coming here using their talents to politically remove my rights. I think this is a fair point to make.

>What if some highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties. That should be perfectly acceptable and within the bounds of free speech in a democratic society. It's up to you to counter "bad speech" with other speech in the marketplace of ideas. At least that's what I'm told when I complain ab…

It should be within the bounds of speech for people part of our society already

Not for people were considering allowing to join our society

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#555

Post by anon291 » Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 4:48 AM UTC

michaelhoney wrote: post #286

hnpolicestate wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if * some* highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties. Most people globally aren't used to the American interpretation of free speech or gun rights. I don't want people coming here using their talents to politically remove my rights. I think this is a fair point to make.

the obsession with gun rights is doing your country far more harm than highly intelligent immigrants ever will

America has an extremely low violence rate.

If you remove a handful of neighborhoods with particularly bad problems, Americas violent crime rate is on par that of Europe. Given the number of guns in those safe areas, if would seem Americans are made of some good stuff.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#556

Post by systemstops » Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 4:49 AM UTC

The arguments in favor of immigration are usually economical, but the resultant demographic change is a major force of disruption in our societies and the cause of many current social problems. My home state of California is an radically different place now than when I grew up only a few decades ago because of demographic change caused by immigration.

The question needs to be asked "How much do you want your nation to change?" in exchange for the alleged economic benefits. Blaming the social problems caused by immigration on citizens because of "xenophobia" when they never wanted mass immigration in the first place is the height of arrogance. The pro-immigration people want the economic benefits of immigration while shifting the blame for the inevitable social problems on the poor citizens who are often victims of these social problems. It's sick.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#557

Post by refurb » Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 4:49 AM UTC

apsec112 wrote: post #241

mensetmanusman wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republicans are strongly anti-illegal immigration, and that appears anti-immigration to some.

Trump supported a plan to reduce legal immigration by half: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/us/politics/trump-immigra...

That's an article from 7 years ago?

Don't you think it makes more sense to look at Trump's 2024 platform?

https://rncplatform.donaldjtrump.com/

The only statement on legal immigration: "Republicans will prioritize Merit-based immigration, ensuring those admitted to our Country contribute positively to our Society and Economy, and never become a drain on Public Resources."

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#558

Post by margalabargala » Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 4:54 AM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #214

labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

Republicans are strongly anti-illegal immigration, and that appears anti-immigration to some.

Being strongly anti illegal immigration is among their positions, yes, but I think OP is more referring to their position of erecting additional.barriers in the way of legal immigration.

They have discovered it is easier to win political points by making current legal immigrants illegal and deporting them, than addressing what people think of as "illegal immigration". But they get to call it the same thing :-)

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#559

Post by lowkey » Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 4:55 AM UTC

apsec112 wrote: post #241

mensetmanusman wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republicans are strongly anti-illegal immigration, and that appears anti-immigration to some.

Trump supported a plan to reduce legal immigration by half: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/us/politics/trump-immigra...

It seems like Trump’s immigration stance has evolved significantly in the seven years since this article was written. A few weeks ago he appeared on the All-in podcast and promoted the idea of giving green cards en masse to foreign students upon graduation. I support the idea even if I don’t support the candidate.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#560

Post by goatlover » Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 4:56 AM UTC

AnarchismIsCool wrote: post #324

pton_xd wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. Explain how unskilled illegal immigrants contribute to our success. I'm open minded but I've yet to hear anything convincing. No one is opposed to the legal immigration of skilled workers.

Unskilled labor isn't a thing. There are plenty of people who can go from zero skill to writing decent python in a weekend (literally better than I've seen on some production systems) if given the chance. The same goes for building houses or airplanes. In real life, shit just isn't that complicated if someone is willing to spend a couple hours teaching the basics.

I sure hope surgeons spend more than a week to become decent.