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Panic at the Job Market

matt.sh

551–560 of 1001 posts

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#551
I have been trying to hire someone with more than a couple years experience in frontend and event sourcing with any language in the backend for weeks and 90% of the applicants are just people right off a bootcamp where they just do Django. then a couple no-shows and people who essentially add any tech they've heard of in their CV.

In the past I've interviewed dozens of people who mention five DBMS in their resume but can't say when they'd use one over the other.

there might be less low hanging jobs, but finding competent devs beyond mid-level is getting harder and harder. it seems they stop job hopping.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#552
When I was younger I had the same frustration as the author. Then as I got older and more senior and responsible for doing hiring I realized just how hard hiring is. I also learned to be more charitable with others. Generally people are trying their best. If you can come up with a repeatable interviewing method that works better, write about it and share it and people will adopt it. I came up with a method that didn't have a coding test; technical interview that takes an hour and really dives deep into what the candidate knows and has done via conversation. But it has the disadvantage that it is much harder to conduct and evaluate objectively especially when comparing multiple candidates. Their answers will not be directly comparable.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#553
The aws examples take me back to when I worked for a business where all technical decisions in a LoB were made by the non technical LoB manager.

A particular LoB had ignored our warnings that their technology selection would not scale, implemented a website that was incapable of scaling, paid the developer of the tech for a cluster license (5000 bucks per quarter per server I was told) and implemented the technology in such a way that they could not identify when 1 member of the cluster had failed to automate fail over.

Instead of fixing it (a months development time to port to another web platform max), they simply planned to have a tech online for their high traffic events to manually pull cluster members that stopped responding out of the cluster, reboot them, then add them back into the pool for 3 hours straight.

Then they would throw more resources at the VM, and grunt about the infrastructure team not doing their jobs. It was insane. This platform would quit responding at What was extra fun was when they paid a very large AWS integrator to move the cluster to the cloud. When the AWS integrator got a look at it they just walked away. So instead they paid a local mob to do it.

At the time, pulling a windows environment up and down via cloud formation was not something that automated easily. They got 50% of the way through and realised oh shit, this is either going to cost us 10x the contract value or might even be impossible, so that local group ghosted them taking 100% of contract funds (I got to be in the meeting where they actually read the contract, and they had a very good contract that no one had read that allowed them to declare a technical impasse and bail with all paid monies. OFC they paid 100% in advance) too. So they ate the spend, and just called AWS the "DEV" environment, deleted the cloud formation scripts, and started packaging deployments back to "Prod" which was running on the infrastructure they would never stop hating on.

Once that was done they called an all staff meeting to praise the team for completing their project only 3 years late.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#554
post #249

I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideratio…

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

Conversely, my company, which interviewed me by having me write ‘for’ loops in all 12 or so languages listed on my CV during the technical interview, is a pretty decent place to work.

I cannot tell you how bemused I was after leaving that interview. I’d done months of degrading stupid ‘tell us some trivia about JS’ interviews, and here was someone that (apparently) just wanted to judge whether the information on my CV was true.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#555
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While tough, it's often a good thing for the applicant as a natural filter. If someone can't hire well, it's not a good place to work. But for people like the guy who wrote that article, eviction eventually becomes a problem. And so many companies can't hire well right now that in a market with declining openings he might not be able to wait for a company that can hire well.

That is definitely true. And a lot of the jobs are jobs that the person would do well in, but the employers don't bother to see it. I know there are jobs that I would have done extremely well in, but the companies were just black boxes. They just sit around being unproductive while they wait for someone to check some arbitrary checkboxes. It'd be like trying to hire a farm hand but instantly reject them because they…

> And a lot of the jobs are jobs that the person would do well in, but the employers don't bother to see it. I know there are jobs that I would have done extremely well in, but the companies were just black boxes.

Oh yes. One sticks in my mind. All of these details were present in my resume.

Job Ad:

> Expert level health insurance system knowledge and experience interfacing between EHR providers and partners.

Me: Director of Product for a claim benefits management software company (i.e. the software that insurers use to run their business, cut checks to providers, process premiums, calculate deductibles, etc., repricing, the whole nine yards). Also have worked extensively with EPIC, Cerner, ESOsuite. Have also worked in platform development, third party API integrations.

I get that it was probably the boilerplate, but stung that twenty minutes later:

"We apologize, but we are looking for someone whose skillset and experience better our aligns with our requirements for this position."

Huh. I may well not have been the ideal candidate, but not sure how much more closely my experience could have been "aligned".

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#556

I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideratio…

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. I’ve done some mentoring of CS grads for the past few years. We some times get people with unreasonable interview demands, like companies asking them to make an entire app or website for the interview process. We advise them to decline the really excessive ones. However, it’s rare to see tha…

>but when they describe the process it adds up to around 4-5 hours total.

4-5 hours for an entry level role does seem excessive yes (if you're not a top tier tech company). How much do you really need to gleam from a new grad? Why does a new grad need to talk to the CTO to show their eagerness?

I've gone through longer hurdles (one interview I did for a potential 2nd job with 2YOE at the time was HR call, 2 stages, and an all day interview with 3 technical stages and 2 "culture fits". So evaluate the stages as you will there), but that doesn't mean I saw it as reasonable. I don't hold the cards in these processes though.

>I frequently have to convince people to do simple take-home problems

everyone's experience will vary, but I've never had a "simple take home problem". Ironically enough my shortest problems were timed 90 minute leetcode medium-hard questions. most other takehomes are just 4-12+ hour miniprojects or quizzes spanning coding, math, language domain questions, and system design. I did it for my first few jobs, but I really can't these days unless I am already far along. Especially when you get a few from last year that ghost you after you turn it in.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#557
post #551

I have been trying to hire someone with more than a couple years experience in frontend and event sourcing with any language in the backend for weeks and 90% of the applicants are just people right off a bootcamp where they just do Django. then a couple no-shows and people who essentially add any tech they've heard of in their CV. In the past I've interviewed dozens of people who mention five DBMS in their resume but…

Being at mid-level, there seems to be no demand for my skill level.

>90% of postings I see are beyond mid-level and seem to be inflexible in those requirements.

From where I'm standing, jobseeking as a senior looks like a candidates market.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#558

The current state of the tech job market, as discussed here, highlights a significant opportunity for grassroots innovation. While we're focusing on the challenges, we might be overlooking the potential for creating new, more resilient models of work and business. Consider the rise of digital cooperatives or platform co-ops. These could provide an alternative to the traditional tech company structure, offering worker…

I've thought about this a bit and have decided the main barrier to realizing a software development worker co-op is getting together the sufficient startup capital. A handful of regular tech workers probably lack the liquid capital to self-fund a company. And good luck convincing a VC to invest in a worker coop. The easiest business to build like this would be a software consultancy since it doesn't actually require…

Something like a DAO (decentralized autonomous organization) could be one way to go. DAOs are tricky however: very difficult to implement an effective governance structure in code. But I reckon it's possible to use some DAO concepts and develop a co-op type model. There are sources of funding available for 'community interest' type business ventures.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#559
post #39

There might be some good points buried in this post, but all I get is bitterness without much self-reflection. They seem like they'd be difficult to work with and would blame you for it.

I stopped at (paraphrased): "I've never passed a coding interview. Coding interviews hire the wrong people!"

He's not wrong. 90% of coding interviews are completely unrelated to the job. Here are some experiments for you to try in your next one:

- if it's a super difficult problem, remark how fascinating it is and ask the interviewer how often they're doing this stuff

- if it's FizzBuzz or something else that is solved and has a known value, propose hardcoding the answer as a constant and printing it without doing any computation, and see how that goes over

- if it's not one of these, you might be in a 10% case

My favorite was when I applied at, let's call it "StoreJogger" at as entry level engineer. This guy comes in for the technical interview and asks me a question that basically boils down to "how would you make StoreJogger?" and I remember thinking that if I knew the answer, I sure as shit wouldn't be in there. Yeah I guess it was technically a relevant question.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#560
post #249

I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideratio…

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

"If someone can't hire well, it's not a good place to work."

But nobody hires well, so where can I work?

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