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Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

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Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#551
post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A verbal contract, which has no record at all, can also be legally binding.

I guess like all laws it depends on jurisdiction, and more importantly, if you can convince the judge/magistrate that the contract did or did not happen

Yeah, but the law still sets the default baseline for he judge / jury / whatever. In the Nordic countries (at least Sweden) -- as techno-modern and bureaucratic as they may be -- that still includes verbal agreements.

(The handshake is probably not a legal requirement, though I suppose it could be taken into consideration as evidence -- "You even shook hands on it, so you must have realised that what you had just discussed were atually the terms you were agreeing to.")

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#552
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked for multiple startups (Malwarebytes, Vicarious, Rad AI, Explosion AI, Aptible, Kenna Security). Not once have I seen an exit agreement that stated they would steal back my vested equity if I didn't sign. This is definitely not "standard restrictions".

How is malwarebytes a startup? They were a thing when I was a baby!

GP:

> I have worked for multiple startups (Malwarebytes...

Note the "have worked" and the rather long list of places they've worked. If that list is in chronological order (sure didn't look alphabetical), Malwarebytes doesn't have to be a startup now for it to have been one when GP worked there.

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, totally legit. Don't worry about it, it's not enforceable anyways. What, remove it from the contract? God no! Oh, I mean sorry, no one off contracts.

Attorneys are like any other profession. The average attorney is just like the average person, except he passed a difficult test. Exceptions require sign off and thinking. The optimal answer is go with the flow. In an employment situation, these sorts of terms require regulatory intervention or litigation to make them go away, so it’s a good bet that most employees will take no action.

> The average attorney is just like the average person, except he passed a difficult test.

My best friend is a lawyer, so heck knows how difficult that test can be -- he passed it. ;-)

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one off contracts. lol. What nonsense. Then why did bother to have a meeting? You handled that one like a boss.

yup. companies say that all the time. another way they do it is to say, it is company policy, sorry, we can't help it. thereby trying to avoid individual responsibility for the iniquity they are about to perpetrate on you. .

"If it's company policy, then how can't you help it, when you're the company?"

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#555
post #33
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a mistake... "...But there's a problem with those apologies from company leadership. Company documents obtained by Vox with signatures from Altman and Kwon complicate their claim that the clawback provisions were something they hadn’t known about..."

Honestly I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on that, depending on their actions, because I'm sure they sign so many documents they just rely on their legal teams to ensure they're good.

Naïve enough to deserve the downvotes. (None from me; too late.)

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whatever it's worth (not much), Sam Altman did say they would do that > if any former employee who signed one of those old agreements is worried about it, they can contact me and we'll fix that too. very sorry about this. https://x.com/sama/status/1791936857594581428

This looks like proper accountability and righting your wrongs to me. Much respect to Sam. I hope this isn’t just a performance for the public.

Some people are just so deep into fanboiism they refuse to see the writing on the wall even when it's in ten-foot-high letters of fire on a pitch-black background. Of fucking course it's just a performance for the public.

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#557
post #10
post #6

If this really was a mistake the easiest way to deal with it would be to release people from their non disparagement agreements that were only signed by leaving employees under the duress of losing their vested equity. It's really easy to make people whole for this, so whether that happens or not is the difference between the apologies being real or just them just backpedaling because employees got upset. Edit: Looks…

> ”we are identifying and reaching out to former employees who signed a standard exit agreement to make it clear that OpenAI has not and will not cancel their vested equity and releases them from nondisparagement obligations” Looks like they’re doing that.

"We're hereby making a legally binding commitment that those clauses are void, whether anyone reaches out to us or we manage to reach out to them or not."

Unless and until that's what they say, looks like they’re not doing that.

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLM cares not whether something is said or whether the action is described. No doubt, openai is as vacuous as their product is effect. GIGO.

Form follows function, art imitates life, dog owners grow to look like their dogs...

...and software products reflect the corporate structure of the companies that created them.

Think I'll be staying away from "AI" for a while longer.

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#559

The amount [and scale] of practices, chaos and controversies caused by OpenAI since ChatGPT was released are "on par" with the powerful products it has built since.. in a negative way! These are the hottest controversial events so far , in a chronological order: OpenAI's deviation from its original mission (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34979981). The Altman's Saga (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3830961…

Don't indent lists like that; it makes HN present them as code, so the URLs in them don't become clickable links.

Re: Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees

#560
post #423
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re definitely doing this on comments too. I’ve had negative towards altman comments at the top dropped to below the negative voted ones in the past

It's standard moderation on HN to downweight subthreads where the root comment is snarky, unsubstantive, or predictable. Most especially when it is unsubstantive + indignant. This is the most important thing we've figured out about improving thread quality in the last 10 years. But it doesn't vary based on specific persons (not Sam or anyone else). Substantive criticism is fine, but predictable one-liners and that so…

Funny though how all these oh-so-objctive algorithms -- your rule of thumb for weighting threads, "the flamewar detector" on posts, "SNI", etc, etc -- seemingly always just so happen to have the outcome they have.

Sorry, you may be (are probably) being perfectly honest and sincere, but... It's still too many coincidences not to give rise to doubts. If about nothing else, then about the weights in your algorithms (the post of a negative-headline article that lasted under two hours on the front page didn't look all that much more flame-war-y to me than the one off a positive-headline one that lasted over twelve) or your definition of "significant" ("Breaking news, OAI says they didn't do it!" Yeah right, how is that significant; which crook doesn't say that wasn't actually his paw in the cookie jar?).

Or maybe it's bigger; maybe it's time for the, uhm, "tone" of the entire site to change? I mean, society at large seems to have come to the insight that wannabe rentier techbros just aren't likely to be good guys. And maybe your intended audience -- "startup hackers", something like that, right? -- are beginning to resemble mainstream society in this respect?

Maybe we "Hackers" are coming to the realisation that on the current trajectory of the tech industry in the late-stage capitalism era, "two guys with their laptops in a garage" are not very likely to become even (paltry!) multi-millionaires, because all the other "two guys with their laptops in a garage" ten-fifteen-twenty years ago (well, the ones of them that made it, anyway) installed such insurmountable moats around their respective fiefdoms ("pulled up the ladder behind them", as we'd say if they were twenty years older) that making it big as an actual "Hacker" is becoming nigh-impossible?

I mean, to try and illustrate by example: The Zuck zucks even in the mind of most HN regulars, right? But if you trawl through early posts (pre-2017? -14? -10?), betcha he's on average much more revered here than he is now. A bit like Musk still seems to be, and up until a year or whatever ago, that other Sam (Frazzled Blinkman?) was, and... The rate and mechanism of change here seems to be "Oops, yet another exception, a wannabe rentier techbro who turned out to be a slimebag. But as a group, wannabe rentier techbros are of course still great!" Maybe it's time to go through the algorithms and prejudices and turn down all the explicit and implicit the "Wannabe Zuck[1] = Must be great!" dials?

Because as it is, these biases -- "just percieved" as you seem to be saying, "implicit and built into the very foundations of HN" as I'd tentatively say; does it even matter which it is? -- seem to be making HN not a forum for the current-day "two guys with their laptops in a garage", but for fanboyism of the (current and) next group of Bezoses, Zuckerbergs and Musks[1]. Sorry, I haven't checked out the mission statement recently (even though you so graciously linked to it), but is that really what HN is supposed to be?

___

[1]: Well, I'm old enough that I almost wrote "Gates and Ellison" there... Add them in if you want.

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