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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#551

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

empath-nirvana wrote: post #387
34679 wrote: post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

There is an _actual problem_ that needs to be solved. If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else. If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or…

These systems should (within reason) give people what they ask for, and use some intelligence (not woke-ism) in responding the same way a human assistant might in being asked to find a photo.

If someone explicitly asks for a photo of someone of a specific ethnicity or skin color, or sex, etc, it should give that no questions asked. There is nothing wrong in wanting a picture of a white guy, or black guy, etc.

If the request includes a cultural/career/historical/etc context, then the system should use that to guide the ethnicity/sex/age/etc of the person, the same way that a human would. If I ask for a picture of a waiter/waitress in a Chinese restaurant, then I'd expect him/her to be Chinese (as is typical) unless I'd asked for something different. If I ask for a photo of an NBA player, then I expect him to be black. If I ask for a picture of a nurse, then I'd expect a female nurse since women dominate this field, although I'd be ok getting a man 10% of the time.

Software engineer is perhaps a bit harder, but it's certainly a male dominated field. I think most people would want to get someone representative of that role in their own country. Whether that implies white by default (or statistical prevalence) in the USA I'm not sure. If the request was coming from someone located in a different country, then it'd seem preferable & useful if they got someone of their own nationality.

I guess where this becomes most contentious is where there is, like it or not, a strong ethnic/sex/age cultural/historical association with a particular role but it's considered insensitive to point this out. Should the default settings of these image generators be to reflect statistical reality, or to reflect some statistics-be-damned fantasy defined by it's creators?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#552

Post by rhdunn »

FrozenSynapse wrote: post #111
tycho-newman wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have tons of viking material culture you can access directly without the AI layer. AI as learning tool here feels misplaced to me.

what's the point of image generators then? what if i want to put vikings in a certain setting, in a certain artistic style?

Then specify that in your prompt. "... in the style of ..." or "... in a ... setting".

The point is that those modifications should be reliable, so if you want a viking man/woman or an asian/african/greek viking then adding those modifiers should all just work.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#553

Post by ballenf »

empath-nirvana wrote: post #387
34679 wrote: post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

There is an _actual problem_ that needs to be solved. If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else. If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or…

To be truly inclusive, GPTs need to respond in languages other than English as well, regardless of the prompt language.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#554

Post by t0bia_s »

reddalo wrote: post #470
t0bia_s wrote: post #399

Google has similar issue as when you search for images of "white couple" - half of results are not a white couple. https://www.google.com/search?q=white+couple&tbm=isch

WTF that's disgusting, they're actively manipulating information. If you write "black couple" you only get actual black couples.

Or maybe we should scream loud to get manipulated results out from google. It could work with current attempts of political correctness. /j

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#556

Post by electrondood »

rondini wrote: post #454
34679 wrote: post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

Are you seriously claiming that the actual systemic racism in our society is discrimination against white people? I just struggle to imagine someone holding this belief in good faith.

Yeah, it's pretty absurd to consider addressing the systemic bias as racism against white people.

If we're distributing bananas equitably, and you get 34 because your hair is brown and the person who hands out bananas is just used to seeing brunettes with more bananas, and I get 6 because my hair is blonde, it's not anti-brunette to ask the banana-giver to give me 14 of your bananas.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#557

Post by andsoitis »

D13Fd wrote: post #398
empath-nirvana wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an _actual problem_ that needs to be solved. If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else. If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or…

> If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else. > If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something el…

> What should the result be? Should it accurately reflect the training data (including our biases)?

Yes. Because that fosters constructive debate about what society is like and where we want to take it, rather than pretend everything is sunshine and roses.

> Should we force the AI to return results in proportion to a particular race/ethnicity/gender's actual representation in the workplace?

It should default to reflect given anonymous knowledge about you (like which country you're from and what language you are browsing the website with) but allow you to set preferences to personalize.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#558

Post by docandrew »

wokwokwok wrote: post #183
hajile wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all publicity is good. How many people will never again trust Google's AI because they know Google is eager to bias the results? Competitors are already pointing out that their models don't make those mistakes, so you should use them instead. Then there's the news about the original Gemini demo being faked too. This seems more likely to kill the product than help it.

> How many people will never again trust Google's AI because they know Google is eager to bias the results? Seems like hyperbole. Probably literally no one is offended to the point that they will never trust google again by this. People seem determined to believe that google will fail and want google to fail; and they may; but this won’t cause it. It’ll just be a wave in the ocean. People have short memories. In 6 mo…

It’s not untrustworthy because it’s offensive, it’s offensive because it’s untrustworthy. If people think that Google is trying to rewrite history or hide “misinformation” or enforce censorship to appease actual or perceived powers, they’re going to go elsewhere.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#559

Post by user90131313 »

visarga wrote: post #28
user90131313 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a tool/tech to create images and not a fiction ?

why spcifically refuse to generate caucasians? and gaslight us to justify it

because it's racist, not fictional? adjusted by racist people that's why.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#560

Post by aliasxneo »

program_whiz wrote: post #446
Jensson wrote: post #139

> Of course the politically sensitive people are waging war over it. Just like politically sensitive people waged war over Google identifying an obscured person as a Gorilla. Its just a silly mistake, how could anyone get upset over that?

The real reason is because it shows the heavy "diversity" bias Google has, and this has real implications for a lot of situations because Google is big and for most people a dream job. Understanding that your likelihood of being hired into the most prestigious tech companies is probably hindered if you don't look "diverse" or "female" angers people. This is just one sign/smell of it, and so it causes outrage. Evidenc…

> Google is big and for most people a dream job

I wonder how true this is nowadays. I had my foot out the door after 2016 when things started to get extremely politically internally (company leadership crying on stage after the election results really sealed it for me). Something was lost at that point and it never really returned to the company it was a few years prior.

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