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Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

bloomberg.com

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Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#551

Post by Zanni »

fy20 wrote: post #455
Zanni wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar process the first time I rented a Tesla from Hertz (about a year ago). Counter-person was surly, gave me the key for the wrong vehicle (!) and gave me incorrect instructions on how to use the key. Hertz did send out an email in advance on how to use a Model 3/Y, including key entry (incorrect, unfortunately), door operation and charging. Recently I rented one again, and the process was much improved,…

This honestly sounds like a failure from Tesla just making stuff work in non-standard ways. Where I am in Europe there are a few car sharing apps that have electric cars, and all that I've rented (VW, Peugeot, Nissan, Hyundai) just work the same as ICE cars. You press the button on the key fob and it unlocks, you press Start and the car starts. Charging was not terribly complicated either. Scan the RFID tag on the ke…

Tesla is big on rejecting "standards." Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Their door handles on the Models 3 & Y are more aerodynamic but unintuitive, and exiting is non-standard too (for no apparent reason).

On the other hand, the fob-less key is a massive advantage. Connect your phone, and it is your key. You don't even have to take it out of your pocket. You've also got a backup, physical key card that fits in your wallet. I hate bulky key fobs, so this is a huge win for me.

As for charging, nothing beats Tesla. Plug in to a SuperCharger and 1) charging starts immediately, no scanning, no app, no nothing, 2) the SuperCharger network is extensive and reliable--on my last road trip, I stopped in a small town that had a SuperCharger with eight working stalls and a Level 3 charger that had one non-working stall; bummer if you're not driving a Tesla; 3) the navigation is SC aware and will route you to the nearest SC, pre-condition the battery for faster charging when you get close and even let you know how many stalls are free as you're approaching.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#552

Post by wenyuanyu »

b112 wrote: post #520
chrisbolt wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is mature enough to have standards for charging, but is nowhere near being mature for battery swaps. The charging problem will be solved long before battery swaps get close to being a thing, especially with the recent convergence on NACS.

Which is why h2 is the answer. h2 that is shown to work, regardless of all the hyperbole and reckless claims battery fans make.

Honestly, H2's got a long long way (if viable at all) to go as the future of clean cars. There is not much natural H2. In a way, H2 acts like a battery as well using electricity to produce from H2O, and discharge as electricity to H2O. Producing it cleanly, like with green power, isn't efficient yet – it's only around 70% efficient. Plus, getting H2 from the factory to the customer is way way pricier than just using our current electricity grid for charging stations... Converting it to electricity is only about ~30% efficient(?) It will cost a few times more than electricity in the foreseeable future. It will be definitely much harder than have charging stations everywhere.

Not to mention the technical challenges (assume we can handle) of the low volume density, low temperature..

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#554

Post by brnt »

b112 wrote: post #520
chrisbolt wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is mature enough to have standards for charging, but is nowhere near being mature for battery swaps. The charging problem will be solved long before battery swaps get close to being a thing, especially with the recent convergence on NACS.

Which is why h2 is the answer. h2 that is shown to work, regardless of all the hyperbole and reckless claims battery fans make.

Storage of H2 is a challenge in space and weight constrained devices such as cars. Plus, any well to wheels analysis shows H2 coming up behind the alternatives in efficiency.

There aren't claims, these are physical constraints. For heavy vehicles such as trucks and busses (and trains) there might be a market, provided the H2 is an otherwise unused byproduct of some process and needn't be produced, but for the majority of personal mobility major breakthroughs are required to make it competitive.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#555

Post by toast0 »

atkailash wrote: post #264
CharlieDigital wrote: post #183

Not sure about the economics for the rental companies, but for a consumer, there are practical reasons why electric aren't quite as attractive. When you rent a car, more than likely you will be in unfamiliar territory. So it seems that it just adds to the stress of travel and yet another thing you have to pay attention to. Will my hotel have charging spots? Will I be able to charge at the client site I'm visiting? Ho…

I don’t see how that’s different than needing to figure out gas station locations and not knowing how much you’ll use between points since you don’t know traffic or efficiency of that vehicle.

Gas stations near highways tend to have big signs you can see from the highway, in addition to being near most offramps in built-up areas. In rural areas, there's usually signs on the highway letting you know when there's a gas station at upcoming offramps and which direction to turn to get there. When there is a large distance between gas stations, there's typically signage letting you know about that too.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#556

Post by coderenegade »

b112 wrote: post #520
chrisbolt wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is mature enough to have standards for charging, but is nowhere near being mature for battery swaps. The charging problem will be solved long before battery swaps get close to being a thing, especially with the recent convergence on NACS.

Which is why h2 is the answer. h2 that is shown to work, regardless of all the hyperbole and reckless claims battery fans make.

I think green methanol is more likely, since that's what global shipping seems to be converging on. Methanol is really just a vector for H2, but you can make it without having to first synthesize H2 (although you can do that too if you want). Depending on the method of production, I've seen efficiency numbers around that of producing LH2, but you get a product that is liquid at STP conditions, which is a huge advantage.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#557

Post by DoesntMatter22 »

brnt wrote: post #547
chrisbolt wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is mature enough to have standards for charging, but is nowhere near being mature for battery swaps. The charging problem will be solved long before battery swaps get close to being a thing, especially with the recent convergence on NACS.

I'd call the charging market far from nature. Installing random apps, practically per charging point? Or requiring a second wallet for all the 'network' cards? Wake me up when I need nothing more than the payment card I already carry.

It's solved because you just use Tedla super chargers and that's it.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#558

Post by vegardx »

kccqzy wrote: post #480
AYBABTME wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existing chargers for these cars are much slower than the slower Tesla chargers, so it's not like these cars will face an overall worse experience.

No, these cars charge at maximum 240kW when the voltage is sufficient. But on a Tesla charger without sufficient voltage they charge at 100kW. Therefore the experience is significantly worse.

This is only true for somewhat old and obsolete Tesla superchargers, like V1 and V2. Since the introduction of Supercharger V3 they're all 400-1000V, so any car, with any internal voltage can charge at their rated speeds.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#559

Post by zpeti »

dcchambers wrote: post #453

Im bullish on EVs but I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. EVs are best for the types of driving we do on a day-to-day basis. Short commutes in areas we know well. Charge at home over night and 95% of the year you never worry about charging. Renting a car means I'm usually either driving long distances or im somewhere new and I don't know about the local charging infr…

> but I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs.

How could hertz not have known this? I think this was probably not a business decision but a management decision done so they can call the company green, basically virtue signalling when clearly it was a terrible business decision.

Sustainability is great but I feel like we’re making a lot of bad decisions to pretend like we are sustainable.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#560

Post by masklinn »

tuatoru wrote: post #505
kirse wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. This was my recent experience. I was offered an EV car as a rental upgrade in a major city because the local rental place didn't have an EV charger. I figured what the hell because it was a relaxed holiday vacation. Turns out that was a hilariously bad idea. Ended up spending at least 5-6 hours of my week vacation trying to avoid t…

> ... trying to find chargers with the right plug, ones that aren't broken, ones that were available, downloading various apps, etc. Then when I did find a charger I sat in the parking lot waiting for it to juice up. These considerations are why I think we'll eventually move to battery swapping, when the market is mature enough to have standards for batteries. When there are as many battery swapping stations as there…

To me battery swapping makes no sense for consumer cars unless it’s used to significantly increase prices (possibly by removing home charging as well): battery swapping requires a ton more maintenance, space, infrastructure, and logistics, constrains vehicles enormously, and requires a very small number of standard battery formats.
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