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Things are about to get worse for generative AI

garymarcus.substack.com

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Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#551

Post by kranke155 »

ctoth wrote: post #447
kranke155 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but making it possible for the neural network to make the movie (eventually in seconds) is somehow ok? So people can make their own private CG Mario films, as long as they don't try to sell them? Here's my argument - even if the NN only makes the films for private consumption, eventually they'll be so widespread and fast at making them that won't matter, since everyone will be able to watch Mario movies of thei…

I don't really care if it sits well with them. do you? In that future, why do we need them? They are already parasites feeding off our collective societal stories. Or did you think Disney came up with all those characters? Maybe the original creator of Snow White should sue.

Oh my lord surely you know Disney has no copyright on Snow White...

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#552

Post by sgt101 »

davidy123 wrote: post #80

The solution could be great. I really don't like the way culture always goes to the same tropes, calling any potential innovation "out of Star Trek" (with attendant distorted expectations), right down to expecting an interface based on literal hand-waving in Minority Report. If copyright held works ("USS Enterprise") could be removed, yet the actual essential concepts (space ship, naming things) retained, it would be…

> special access for the elite.

I think that this is about property rights, the news industry has been gutted in the last 30 years, a lot of content creators (journalists) have lost their livings. The ones that are left are going to lose their livings if the content they generate is rendered valueless because there is no way of protecting that value.

In terms of special access, think about your shoes. They are nice, but only you are allowed to use them. This is not fair. You are the elite...

This goes to difficult places.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#553

Post by Atrine »

bnralt wrote: post #124
keiferski wrote: post #39

These don't seem all that difficult to fix to me. Most of the examples are not really generic, but are shorthand descriptions of well-known entities. "Video game plumber" is practically synonymous with "Mario" and anyone that has the slightest familiarity with the character knows this. Likewise, how difficult is it to just use descriptive tools to describe Mario-like images [1] and then remove these results from anyo…

It seems like a somewhat dystopian thing to fix. Imagine a scenario where Photoshop would scan images you uploaded for copyright material and then refuse to work if it determined image contained any copyrighted material or characters (even if it was just a fan drawing you did). This reminds me of the early days of the internet where people wanted to remove free fanfiction for violations of copyright laws. Trying to a…

> Imagine a scenario where Photoshop would scan images you uploaded for copyright material and then refuse to work if it determined image contained any copyrighted material or characters (even if it was just a fan drawing you did).

YouTube does this. I have many friends that perform classical piano in their spare time. They record themselves playing a piece that's 200+ years old then put it on YouTube where it gets flagged saying some big record label owns the copyright for it because it's similar to a recording they put out.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#554

Post by sgt101 »

davidy123 wrote: post #168
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science journals are mostly under copyright of a few big publishers who are extremely hostile to any kind of ML being performed on the content.

That's not as true as it used to be, and there are still plenty of useful open journals/open science publications, though proper attribution would often be important. [edit] you could pretty much say that on principle, any significant development should have a publication in the open.

and yet, who pays? This is fine if we are going to go full communist - I have no objection personally - but selective appropriation of peoples livelihoods is more full mafia or full feudal.

I don't see that as a step forward.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#555

Post by sjfjsjdjwvwvc »

endisneigh wrote: post #162
sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reread my comment again. If your __only__ motivation is money, you will have a problem. I agree it’s necessary to pay artists - but we don’t need copyright for that! There are many tried and proven alternatives.

So naive lol. How many independent, unconnected rich artists were born pre and post YouTube for instance?

No idea - do you know?

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#556

Post by CuriouslyC »

8organicbits wrote: post #534
goertzen wrote: post #526

No they are not. This is a negotiation tactic by the NYT to drive up the licensing price. Period. The Napster/Music Industry analogy has no resemblance to this situation. The only meaningful question that might be answered as a result of this is, what permission and access rights do crawlers have to content that is publicly and legally available.

Surely there's a meaningful question about copying and distributing content verbatim, which GPT has been shown to do.

Not really. Models are a device capable of producing protected content given some input contortions. So are Xerox machines.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#557

Post by MeImCounting »

asylteltine wrote: post #521
kayodelycaon wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal observation is people who are against copyright in absolute terms have never or rarely needed their protection. (Or never considered the implications.) I’m not making a dig at people here. This is just human nature. It’s difficult to see the value in something that you only see as an obstacle. Open source software is rather unusual. It’s a commune on a massive scale and it gets its value from the generosi…

This is true and I see it with cops and free speech as well. Everyone loves to hate cops… until they need them. Everyone wants to defund the police… until they are a victim of crime. Everyone wants to enforce certain speech patterns… until it affects them

This isnt a great take at all. Copyright is certainly an important part of our society upon which like the parent said, Open Source Software and other incredibly valuable things lie.

Cops on the other hand solely exist for the reason of locking people in cages. Why you ever feel like you need to have someone else locked in a cage is beyond me. When I have been the victim of a crime the cops have not shown and when they did have been less than helpful. This is a pattern for all the people in my subjective bubble.

About that whole speech patterns thing. I assume you mean addressing people in a polite way? Thats not enforcing certain speech patterns thats actually just being a respectful member of society.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#558

Post by regularfry »

aimor wrote: post #467

I did an interesting thing and looked at how well the Llama2 models could compress text. For example, I took the first chapter of the first Harry Potter book and recorded the index of the 'correct' predicted token. The original text, compressed with 7zip (LZMA?) to about 14kB. The Llama2 encoded indexes compressed to less than 1kB. Then, of course, I can send that 1kB file around and decode the original text. (Unless…

What it tells you is that 93% of the information is sufficiently shared with the rest of the English language such that it can be pulled out into a shared codebook. LZMA doesn't have a codebook, not really.

In other words it's not that llama2 contains 93% of Chapter 1, it's that only 7% of Chapter 1 is different enough to anything else to be worth encoding in its own right.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#559

Post by sanderjd »

pixl97 wrote: post #441
sanderjd wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, people already talk about this. What it seems to me from the milieu of everything I've read and heard (that is: I can't cite examples, this is an aggregate developed from hundreds of articles and podcasts etc.) is that there is already an "AI" arms race underway, but that it has more to do with specialized ML systems than with consumer LLMs. But I'm not really in the loop, and maybe OpenAI really is more impo…

It mostly doesn't matter if the military wants specialist systems, in the long run generalist systems tend to win in power and adaptability. Some of this may be a misunderstanding of what modern militaries do, if they are shooting guns there's already been some level of failure. Massive amounts of war gaming, sentiment analysis, and propagandizing occur, see the RAND Corporation for more details on the military devel…

Yeah this makes sense. Maybe RAND publications will indeed give me some insight into my question.

But I also buy that there is a lot of overlap between military work and any other kind of white collar work, which LLMs are definitely useful (but not revolutionary) for.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#560

Post by logicchains »

iainctduncan wrote: post #493
ctoth wrote: post #470

Everybody just buying into the corporate narrative that anyone can actually own these sorts of things. Who truly owns the tales of Snow White and Cinderella? These stories didn't originate with Disney; they are part of a rich tapestry of folklore passed down through generations. Disney's success was partly built on adapting these existing narratives, which were once shared and reshaped by communities over centuries.…

Copyright has never been based on a moral stance. It has always been determined by the lobbying power of various groups. The idea that we should dispense with it to let generative AI companies make even more money seems totally bizarre.

>The idea that we should dispense with it to let generative AI companies make even more money seems totally bizarre.

How's that bizarre, if as you state copyright has always been based on "money makes right" not some moral stance?

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