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Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

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Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#551

Post by selimthegrim »

mandevil wrote: post #500
CamperBob2 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with Rickover as a role model? If he'd been able to do for the civilian nuclear power sector what he did for the Navy, a lot of things would be a lot better now.

Rickover effectively seized control of the entire USN submarine arm and ran it as a personal fief for three decades. I don't think that could possibly work with civilian power in the US, because it's NOT a military organization and can't be changed by top-down mandate. A 1978 USNI Proceedings essay on NR and leadership[1], which won a bunch of prizes, had this great description of Rickover's micromanagement: "Each nu…

The reality is we have to give Sam total credit for transparency. From the USNI and Air University articles mandevil and I cited he was completely open and honest about how he intended to run OpenAI (although he was still at YC then). Let's just hope his next role model isn't https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naftaly_Frenkel

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#552

Post by koolba »

nabla9 wrote: post #509
ChuckMcM wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes think that at this level of the game everyone hates everyone else and its all politics. You don't "come out" for or against anyone publicly, you leave all of that under cover. It makes knowing who your friends and enemies are more difficult and it restricts your ability to maneuver. Another quote from my grandfather was "Mutual respect does not require that you like someone."

"like" or "hate" are words for people and petty personal conflicts. It's counterproductive to take business conflicts personally. PG removed Sam Altman silently without harming his future. There is no reason to be enemies after the issue is solved. There may be deals to be made again.

> PG removed Sam Altman silently without harming his future.

When police departments do that to overly aggressive cops, it’s generally considered a bad thing.

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#553

Post by gwern »

adrr wrote: post #344
mousetree wrote: post #24

> One of those people whose career Altman helped propel was Ilya Sutskever, chief scientist and board member at OpenAI — the person who ultimately fired him. Ilya was plenty successful before OpenAI and would've been just fine without Altman helping to "propel" his career.

Why did he sign the letter and post: >I deeply regret my participation in the board's actions. I never intended to harm OpenAI. I love everything we've built together and I will do everything I can to reunite the company.

This is why, the WSJ says: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/openai-s-path-ahea...

"One surprise signee was Ilya Sutskever, the company’s chief scientist and one of the members of the four-person board that voted to oust Altman. On Monday morning, Sutskever said he deeply regretted his participation in the board’s action. “I will do everything I can to reunite the company,” he posted on X.

Sutskever flipped his position following intense deliberations with OpenAI employees as well as an emotionally charged conversation with Brockman’s wife, Anna Brockman, at the company’s offices, during which she cried and pleaded with him to change his mind, according to people familiar with the matter."

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#554

Post by screye »

mrkramer wrote: post #402

Why would Sam Altman be held as someone irreplaceable....the dude seems like a smart guy but c'mon he is not Jobs or Gates. I remember first time hearing him when he interviewed Zuck about Facebook and entrepreneurship (when he worked for Y Combinator). Now we talk about him as the next Gates or Jobs. I think this was one big marketing stunt from OpenAI, now the whole software and business community talks about them.…

No one knows when to raise like Sam. Some may say that is his only skill. But, it is valuable skill to have when you are about to be the richest startup of this generation.

Same reason top football players contracted with Mino Raiola.

A scum bag (or tough/sleazy negotiator depending on how you see it) who can be a scum bag without everyone hating him is an exceedingly rare talent.

Sam seems to have it and is valued accordingly.

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#555

Post by CamperBob2 »

selimthegrim wrote: post #547
CamperBob2 wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, interesting perspective there that I'm not very familiar with. Will have to check out the USNI essay.

I too, wasn't aware of this or I might have cited it in the thread as well.

It's interesting because you can't argue with the success he achieved, and given how high the stakes were, you can sort of understand the temptation to micromanage. But (having read the essay now) you also can't learn much from Rickover's methodology, or apply it anywhere else. If for no other reason than the fact that few/no similar problems exist anywhere else.

We also can't run the experiment multiple times to determine if he was really relying on luck all along. The Navy's luck ran pretty low at a couple of points (Thresher and Scorpion come to mind).

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#556

Post by screye »

ncann wrote: post #532
screye wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HAHA, I know. Ilya, a nobody who wrote the most seminal paper of the last 10 years. The guy that Eric Schmidt and Elon broke their friendship over was just a random nobody. Come on. It is no secret that when OpenAI formed, every single researcher joined so they could work with Ilya (and Zaremba who worked with him, but was less famous). Greg is brilliant but ML people didn't care for him and Sam 'one of those VC guys…

What's that about with Eric Schmidt, Elon and Ilya?

Correction, it was Larry Page (close enough), Elon and Ilya.

Source - https://youtu.be/7nORLckDnmg?si=1T5qyYAdPrMwsEGG&t=73

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#557

Post by patmcc »

ketzo wrote: post #435
imjonse wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul's tweet is an objective statement, it does not say anything about character or values and is not explicitly supportive.

…you think calling someone “the best in the world” is a) purely factual b) not supportive Uh, what on earth would count as explicitly supportive language?

If my favourite sports team was in the championship (and the underdog), I could easily make the claim "team $NOT_MY_TEAM is the best in the world" and still hope that my team beats them.

Not saying pg is doing this, of course.

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#558

Post by ignoramous »

bmitc wrote: post #356
ignoramous wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why is he so formidable? Commenting on an article that portrayed him as such? > His name is Sam Altman. Unsure what your point is; sama is his hn username.

I don't know the usernames of people discussed in articles and prefer not referring to people colloquially. And I had assumed that you meant formidable in a positive sense. To me, he seems like a manipulative grifter. We even see that in his response to being fired. Instead of discussing facts, he was trying personal power plays, manipulating the media and employees, and trying to simultaneously start a new company,…

> almost like a cosplayer

If only growing startups were as easy as cosplay.

> And I had assumed that you meant formidable in a positive sense

Yes, I did. See also: https://twitter.com/karaswisher/status/1727386273936199893

> prefer not referring to people colloquially

If not everyone, at least for hackernews participants with 12k+ karma, you'd think they'd know very well who runs hackernews, or used to.

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#559

Post by lhnz »

adastra22 wrote: post #534
lhnz wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? It seems like a glowing appraisal. He seems to think that Sam is devestatingly effective at what he does.

Graham is English. The English have a wonderful talent for making backhanded “complements.” E.g. “you’re a truly unique individual” or “I always feel more intelligent after speaking with you.” The American convention is to look for the positive and assume that was intended. The English convention is to look for the negative and assume that was the real meaning. E.g. “Sam is going better than you. Do better.” Could me…

I am also English. :)

Re: Before OpenAI, Sam Altman was fired from Y Combinator by his mentor

#560

Post by whyenot »

p_j_w wrote: post #464
mousetree wrote: post #24

> One of those people whose career Altman helped propel was Ilya Sutskever, chief scientist and board member at OpenAI — the person who ultimately fired him. Ilya was plenty successful before OpenAI and would've been just fine without Altman helping to "propel" his career.

It seems obvious that tech media are largely not even close to neutral here. Most everything coming out feels manipulative as hell. I don’t know why anyone thinks they have a clear story of what’s happening here.

> tech media are largely not even close to neutral here

I don't find that surprising at all. Many of those reporting are highly dependent on "access journalism." I suspect it's pretty hard to be neutral when if you piss off the wrong people they will cut you off.

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