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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#551

Post by afuchs »

Moldoteck wrote: post #234
ravenstine wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe That's incredible! Now show us some evidence.

Evidence like total cost of car infra vs taxes that ppl pay? Evidence that low density areas are subsidized by high density? All this info is freely available online. Difference is US can afford to be in debt, other countries - not so much

With the risk of sounding like a broken record, it's what Strong Towns bases their advocacy around: https://www.strongtowns.org/

There's also a overview of their stuff from Not Just Bikes, but these videos are somewhat hit or miss since his works have a tone which can come off as being condescending: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJp5q-R0lZ0_FCUbeVWK6...

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#552

Post by School-Cotton »

flatline wrote: post #498
School-Cotton wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not, OP was wildly exaggerating.

My coparent had her bike stolen. It was parked at her work - a government building. In front of the security office with a window facing the bike racks, and security cameras on them. The cameras were not operational, the police did nothing but take the report. I have had two very securely locked bikes stolen in years past. They were left in what turned out to be a vulnerable place for long periods of time. Depending…

None of this implies that you have a 50% chance of your bike being stolen every time you take it out.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#553

Post by waveBidder »

nravic wrote: post #60
davidw wrote: post #21

I do almost all the grocery shopping for our family of 4 with a Rad Runner Plus with a large basket and bag. I love that bike. Even as someone pretty comfortable getting around on a 'regular' bike, having that extra power just makes it a really easy choice for more trips compared to the car. If it's hot out, it is so much nicer to hop on the bike and get an instant breeze compared to a hot stuffy car. If it's cold ou…

what kind of pannier bags do you use to haul groceries? All the ones I've used have been too small for my purposes.

ortlieb has some super sturdy ones, I grocery shop for 2 with this pair on a road bike. https://www.ortlieb.com/en_us/back-roller-city+F5003

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#554

Post by andrepd »

hnlmorg wrote: post #504
uneekname wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree about the noise and health benefits, but to me it's more a matter of respect and safety. In the U.S., we see too many pedestrians die each year. Our roads are built for cars only, with everything else as an afterthought. When I cross the street, drivers act like it's my responsibility to stay out of their way. If some people need to use cars for mobility or business reasons, that is fine with me. But…

A lot of that can be solved by law too. I know a lot of Americans would see this as an infringement of their freedoms but it’s quite common in other countries to place the order of responsibility to the most vulnerable to least vulnerable. What I mean by this is that cyclists need to give way to pedestrians, and cars need to give way to cyclists and pedestrians. I’ve never quite understood the logic behind jaywalking…

It's useless to build a straight road, 4 wide lanes, then stick a sign on the side going "pls no speederino". The roads and the streets themselves need to be designed so that they do not allow unsafe use. Meaning any road/street shared by pedestrians needs to have narrow lanes, few lanes, sidewalks separated by e.g. a row of trees, speed bumps and raised crosswalks, bollards separating lanes, chicanes, etc.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#555

Post by Moldoteck »

bluGill wrote: post #322
Moldoteck wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol neither dutch bike that long. Bikes are good for 5-7kms, >10 is already a stretch and ppl use bike+train combo or just straight up bus/tram

On an ebike that distance is reasonable. On a regular bike it is possible, but not reasonable. I have a 7 mile trip to work, I have used a regular bike for it, but it takes too long and so I wouldn't do it often. On my ebike it is a reasonable trip to work, my truck isn't that much faster (and is much harder to drive)

Trip is reasonable but for most ppl imo it's still a stretch. At this point, if good tram/bus alternative exists, ppl will prefer it bc of convenience

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#556

Post by em500 »

ryukafalz wrote: post #92
LUmBULtERA wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is taking an ebike really that efficient if its going to be stolen? I kid.. because I have one. But I take 3 locks with me when I need to leave it unattended...

I do worry about this some, but I also have my bikes insured including an e-cargo bike. Cheaper than most car insurance. Still would be a pain in the ass if my bike got stolen though.

In the Netherlands many insurance companies have stopped offering insurance for ebikes and electric cargo bikes, because the chance of theft is too high (approaching 90% in Amsterdam on certain types according the insurance companies).

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#557

Post by andrepd »

houseatrielah wrote: post #229
dv_dt wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such an interesting comment to me because it gets so much right on how to motivate ditching cars. If you were funding a campaign to eliminate cars to reduce carbon emissions I think you would meet with widespread resistance. If you promote an idea of a higher quality life that is possible w/o cars and explore that - in the end I think you'd end up removing many more cars than the first approach.

I think the root cause is further up the chain of casuality. People need cars because they live in the suburbs, they live in the suburbs because they have children, they want to raise children in more square footage than the urban housing stock offers. Notable exception being Tokyo Ironically, if you look NYC in the 1910s, kids used to play baseball in the street because it wasn't yet overrun by cars, suddenly not en…

You've got it backwards. There are suburbs because car infrastructure subsidises many of the costs of that choice. Suburbs are a postwar, post-interstate phenomenon.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#558

Post by [deleted] »

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

[deleted]

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#559

Post by linuxftw »

afuchs wrote: post #510
linuxftw wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'we' subsidizing the middle class is the middle class. "We" are paying for it. What 'we' are also forced to subsidize is the everyone else on top of our choice of accommodations.

I can compare old houses at the edge of a city which cost four times as much to new builds at the far edges of that city's metro area which cost significantly less. The more expensive houses require significantly less infrastructure and cost the government less to support because of their location. A huge undercurrent in urban planning discourse right now (e.g., Strong Towns), is that if all subsidies and taxes were…

I'm certain this logic only applies to mega cities. The vast majority of smaller cities and towns are like one or two streets of high density and the rest is suburban or rural. There's not actually anyone in the 'city' to subsidize those around it.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#560

Post by nradov »

patagonia wrote: post #530
Gud wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need to own a car to do this. The simple fact is, public transport in most places sucks. I’ve moved to Zürich, and there is no way I’ll drive a car willingly again. Taking the tram everywhere is extremely liberating.

I lived in New York City for 5 years. I loved it. I didn't own a car. I took the subway, cabs, trains, and planes everywhere. But, I didn't go camping or own a boat. I live in South Carolina now where I tow my catamaran to different regattas or just to the beach for fun. I go camping with an amount of gear that would be completely unreasonable to take on a train. Public transportation does not allow for the same acti…

Well obviously middle class people shouldn't be allowed to go sailing if that conflicts with urban planning and climate justice goals. Such activities should be restricted to the elites who can afford to keep their private yachts moored in the local marina. All for the greater good.
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