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Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

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Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#551

Post by lanstin »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #279
creata wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From the perspective of a customer, what is the difference between a heated seat that doesn't work because it doesn't exist, and one that is locked out by software? In the former case, I didn't pay you money, so you didn't give me a good / service / whatever. That feels fair, because you need money to provide those things. In the latter case, I didn't pay you money, so you didn't flip a switch . That seems like a d…

> In the latter case, I didn't pay you money, so you didn't flip a switch. This is the case for all software . There is no physical exchange of goods, and nearly zero effort to distribute the bits.

Which is why Stallman got pissed at the lack of source code and worked so hard to make source code always available. So that the economic limitations line up more closely with the physical limitations.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#552

Post by WeylandYutani »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #303
xavdid wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- filmed: definitely - recorded: not sure (probably not long term) - recognized: unlikely

Recorded, definitely based on the fact that Tesla employees were sharing various "funny" clips from these cams among themselves. https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...

I thought the Chinese were being paranoid about Tesla but really anything from the US can be used to spy on your military bases.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#553

Post by whelp_24 »

logifail wrote: post #375
whelp_24 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skip lagging isn't illegal, iirc a recent court case reaffirmed that. Airlines don't like it though so they may cancel you.

So if you buy a Tesla and the T&Cs prohibit you from hacking it/modding it, then you decide to hack away at it anyway, what happens if Tesla were to brick the online features of your vehicle and/or completely cancel you as a customer?

I mean the whole point is that Telsa should not be able to brick the car you purchased because you changed something in your car. Why does a car come with conditions?

Granted I may not be in the demographic for a telsa, i wouldn't ever want my car connected to the internet.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#555

Post by circuit10 »

oatmeal1 wrote: post #529
liendolucas wrote: post #348

> Software-locked features that need to be activated by the owner paying or subscribing to a service are becoming increasingly popular in the auto industry. Sorry, WHAT? People should absolutely boycott companies that try to squeeze bucks in this miserable way.

People overreact to this. If this didn't exist, they would just manufacture cars the old way where multiple version of the same car are produced at high and low prices. I have seen no evidence provided this actually increases the total price of a high feature car. This might actually lower the average price paid because of the economies of scale achieved by making fewer different versions of the same car. Resale valu…

In an ideal world we could just give everyone those features if they didn’t cost any extra to add instead of creating an artificial pricing structure to get more money out of people. Maybe it can’t work that way but making people’s lives worse just to punish them for paying less in order to incentivise them to pay more, rather than as compensation to the company for doing more work, seems wrong

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#556

Post by fleshdaddy »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #403
867-5309 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sounds like a slippery slope to voluntary hip surgery for gait correction

I always wondered if this could be beat by putting a pebble in your shoe or something.

It’s been a long time since I read it but I think that’s exactly how it was beat in Cory Doctorow’s novel Little Brother.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#557

Post by robryan »

myself248 wrote: post #433
wongarsu wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many features it makes sense. Heated seats for example have trivial hardware costs. It's basically a couple resistive wires, plus the necessary controls. The process costs of manufacturing some cars with and some without heated seats likely far exceed the cost of the heated seats themselves, so it's cheaper to just put them in every car. But heated seats are a great upselling opportunity, people are willing to pa…

Back in the day we used to just call those "standard features" and every car had them.

They could do that but would have to raise the base price. These addon features allows a cheaper entry point and price discrimination for those who are willing to pay more.

Whether it ends up being wasteful is complicated, there are would be operating effeciencies in putting the same hardware into every car.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#558

Post by alistairSH »

m463 wrote: post #429
alistairSH wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's not quite theft, but like I said, at minimum, I'd expect Tesla to refuse warranty repairs (hack the software to open Plaid mode, lose your drivetrain coverage, etc). Trying to think about it in terms of "normal" cars - unlocking Plaid is similar to reprogramming the ECU on an ICE to deliver more power.

I don't have any trouble with plaid - it is hardware/software with 3 motors and other hardware, plus control software. There is also law in place to refute what you said. Manufacturers can not deny warranty coverage if you jailbreak your phone or hot rod your car, and this is similar. (I believe they have the burden of proof if it seems you did the damage) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty.…

Yes, I mentioned that law above. It doesn’t protect consumer who modify their cars beyond original spec…

If the manufacturer can show the change contributed to the failure, they can deny coverage. Vastly increasing the power output of the drivetrain would likely cause a voided warranty on the drivetrain.

Unlocking heated seats wouldn’t void the warranty on the drivetrain, but could void it on the seats and related electronics.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#559

Post by eganist »

hot_gril wrote: post #515
dr_orpheus wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Second is "I pay $50 once to unlock heated seats in my car forever. This car now has heated seats and anyone that I sell it to also gets heated seats" Third is "I pay $5/month for heated seats for the entire time I own the car. Anyone that I sell the car to would also have to pay $5/month for heated seats." Edit: The other version of the third option (your BMW account is not tied to this vin) is something like "I pay…

Third seems slightly better, cause at least the secondary buyer clearly knows it's $5/mo instead of having to make sure the one-time payment sticks.

In fairness, the second method should probably be implemented with an e-fuse. That way once it's paid, there's no taking it away.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#560

Post by eganist »

ryathal wrote: post #363
liendolucas wrote: post #348

> Software-locked features that need to be activated by the owner paying or subscribing to a service are becoming increasingly popular in the auto industry. Sorry, WHAT? People should absolutely boycott companies that try to squeeze bucks in this miserable way.

You better be ok with building your own car then, because every major player is adding subscriptions for various features. Remote start and remote lock/unlock are the most common, along with satellite radio.

if everyone is doing it, it's time for the law to step in.
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