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Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

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Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heavily doubt that those would make people switch. Maaaybe, if their social circle already uses Linux. However, make the next Minecraft, Fortnite or Roblox work only (or considerably better) on Linux desktop[ ], and you will suddenly gain a lot more new users. Some of whom will stick around, since all their other apps work the same in the browser. [ ] Whatever that term means, even the article makes a distinction bet…

>However, make the next Minecraft, Fortnite or Roblox work only (or considerably better) on Linux desktop And lose lots of money in that process. :) And what Linux OS should you target? Ubuntu, Fedora, Linux Mint, Arch, Android? Target KDE or Gnome? Or maybe XFCE? X Windows or Wayland? Use ALSA, Pipewire or Pulse Audio? Bionic or glibc?

I imagined anyone making the next hugely popular game in the same category as those that I mentioned is not going to put much money in developing it, just time.

And doing so, they'd likely just target the particular Linux system they happen to have or like---whether Arch, or Android, or even Alpine. It might well work on other Linux systems (or even non-Linux), or it might not.

Maybe I'm off base here, but that's what I see (even casual) gamers do, especially younger ones: go to great lengths to get the game they want, to run. If that system which runs the game also supports their other hobbies, school or work, then that's what they will use.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#553
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That never stopped pirates there so I doubt it's much of an incentive. The biggest driver of adoption is simply more computers sold with Linux pre-installed. Very small fraction of users ever installs an OS.

I've been buying machines with Linux preinstalled for 7-8 years now, both for myself, my wife and my kid. It is possible, and that's great, but boy Dell et al do obfuscate the choice on their sites. You have to know the machine exists, need to know the generation, the year, etc. It's almost as if they don't want people to buy these machines.

I'm interested in this and other than System76 and the scant Dell options I'd be hard pressed to name more options. What do you know of?

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just quickly descends into a "no true Scotsman" argument. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman It's a Linux kernel and a Linux userland on top of `glibc`. It's not a weird libc, like Bionic in Android. You can run a Debian container and Debian apps; my own ChromeOS Flex machine runs Firefox and DOSemu. It's a Linux. It's the most successful desktop Linux there is, and so of course all the advocates dec…

Honestly I don't think this is playing silly games with words, I think it's just a website knowing their readership. Linux is two things: a kernel and an ecosystem of distributions. This website is clearly targeting users of distributions that brand themselves as "Linux distributions". In that way, ChromeOS is obviously not a Linux distribution to anyone that cares about Linux distributions.

I find it interesting that you, and @n6h6 below, say more or less exactly the same thing. :-)

This is exactly what I expect in this corner of the FOSS world, though.

Linux is like Christianity: somehow the Unix world encourages schisms and splinter sects who all deny that each other are legitimate. It's sort of a defining characteristic.

Ignoring all the commercial ones, as they are effectively all dead now, and just looking at the FOSS ones, there are at least a dozen or so rival sects: NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, DragonflyBSD, Minix, HURD/L9 and its various splinter groups, Plan 9 (9front, HarveyOS, Jeanne, etc.), Inferno, and of course, Linux and its thousand distributions.

Precisely two (2) Linux-based OSes have enjoyed large-scale commercial success as user-facing GUI systems for non-technical users. One has billions of users, the other a large fraction of a billion. Both are from Google, and both share a defining attribute: the FOSS world rejects them.

ChromeOS comes in 2 flavours: there's ordinary ChromeOS, which you can only get by buying hardware built to run it (just like Apple's macOS), and there's ChromeOS Flex.

Flex used to be called Neverware Cloudready: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverware

Neverware grew from Hexxeh's remixed and rebuilt ChromiumOS for ordinary PCs. Hexxeh made ChromeOS Flow, and that is the direct grandparent of ChromeOS Flex: both are ChromeOS for generic PC hardware.

And that, for me, is the significant angle. It shows that this is just another Linux distro.

No, it doesn't say "Linux" in the branding. Neither did Ubuntu for the decade or so it took for it to grab some 75% of the desktop Linux market.

Even today, if you go to https://ubuntu.com/ you must scroll quite a long way down the page before the first mention of the word "Linux" and then it's a negative: that line says Ubuntu Pro (a subscription support service) is more than just Linux.

If someone said "Android is not a Linux" I could see that being defensible. You can't download it for free, you can't run it on your own generic off-the-shelf computer, you can't run ordinary Linux apps on it, and so on. It's a different sort of beast, even though, technically it is a Linux because it has a Linux kernel.

By default and unless cracked, it has nothing else Linux-like about it. No shell, no desktop, no X11 or Wayland, nothing.

But ChromeOS Flex is different. It is a Linux in every way that matters. It's free, it's Free, it's open source, there are remixes and rebuilds. It runs on generic kit. It has a desktop, albeit its own unique one. You can pop a shell. You can run containers on it and in them run any arbitrary Linux app.

It looks like a Linux, it acts like a Linux, and it runs like a Linux. It is based on a generic Linux kernel and userland from Gentoo, and it does Linuxy stuff with Linuxy binaries like any other desktop Linux.

It doesn't have systemd, but thank the great god Torvalds and his apostle St Cox, that is not yet a requirement for a Linux distro. It has `upstart`, which was one of the most widespread init systems before ~Lucifer~ Lennart spread his dark blessing across the land.

It is 100% on-brand for the Linux world that when one specific form of Linux-based OS went mainstream, and is now used by billions, the True Believers of the Linux world disowned it. Android is not Linux. OK, they kind of have a point.

But ChromeOS is a Linux. It's not a typical Linux, because typical Linuxes are nerd tools and that kind of OS will never, ever go mainstream unless someone forces people to use it. (As the government of the People's Republic of China are currently doing, but that is irrelevant right now.)

ChromeOS is a desktop Linux with the Linuxiness stripped out. No choice about partitioning. No weird dual-boot mechanisms. No choice of desktops or package managers: No package manager!

But in every way that matters, it is mainstream, it is commercially successful, it's a good polished end-user desktop OS, and it's a Linux.

So of course the Forces of FOSS hate it. Of course they do.

And how do they express that contempt? By saying it's not a True Linux.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#555
post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just quickly descends into a "no true Scotsman" argument. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman It's a Linux kernel and a Linux userland on top of `glibc`. It's not a weird libc, like Bionic in Android. You can run a Debian container and Debian apps; my own ChromeOS Flex machine runs Firefox and DOSemu. It's a Linux. It's the most successful desktop Linux there is, and so of course all the advocates dec…

There are valid reasons to consider ChromeOS "not real Linux" or "not real Desktop Linux". In my opinion, you are being needlessly reductive (mainly in your final paragraph).

See my reply above. :-)

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#556
post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure as hell locked in. Linux Desktop doesn't even remotely come close to offer the things I ask out of a PC (high quality music production and image editing). On the other hand, both Windows and macOS do. And let's not even get started about work.

I have run high quality music production software on Linux. It was Windows software, that runs thanks to Wine. It works and it's even better than native applications because native applications expire when a distro version is discontinued and the application is not packaged for the current version. Windows applications installed in Wine never expire. Wine is Linux, Linux does the job. And high quality image editing i…

Can you use iLok on Linux/wine?

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet not having a presence on the desktop stings a bit doesn't it :). You can conquer the world, dominate every space and yet there's thus little voice inside saying "but you're not good enough. See over there, in that one space, you're a weakling. " Welcome to the human condition.

Agreed, it stings. I see it as a measure of how brainwashed/psychologically coerced the masses are. Why would a sentient, rational agent expend resources for an inferior product while a superior alternative exists which costs nothing.

Because you can’t play games simply and easily for one.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go on the Chromeos subreddit and you'll see a lot of first time Linux users breaking open the dev tools to run Linux apps to get more functionality. Its honestly quite interesting seeing new users from that perspective.

Yes, but many schools lock down their Chromebooks so that you can't run Linux on them. I somehow managed to unenroll mine last year, but I have no idea how I did, and to make it worse I had to switch out my Chromebook after it stopped working. So in practice, no, it's not very useful. Most students are still forced to use a web browser and nothing more, else they run the risk of getting in trouble for hacking their C…

My middle school's computers (desktop pcs with windows at the time) fidn't have passwords on the bios We would bring linux "live users to boot on and play minecraft

A loss for the school, but definitely a win for our education

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah... We've had Workspace for a long time and there are still users that adamantly refuse to use Google Apps over MS. They actually have good reasons as well. Since Google just has web apps only there's always extra steps uploading all the office docs they get from other businesses. We tried blowing Office 2013 away on everyone's machines after being told most users didn't think they needed it. Now, a few months lat…

Great feedback! Excel specifically seems to have the most attachment among our users.

Excel has programming capabilities (VBA) that are used a lot, and I don't think they're available in the online version (are they?)

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I don't think this is playing silly games with words, I think it's just a website knowing their readership. Linux is two things: a kernel and an ecosystem of distributions. This website is clearly targeting users of distributions that brand themselves as "Linux distributions". In that way, ChromeOS is obviously not a Linux distribution to anyone that cares about Linux distributions.

I find it interesting that you, and @n6h6 below, say more or less exactly the same thing. :-) This is exactly what I expect in this corner of the FOSS world, though. Linux is like Christianity: somehow the Unix world encourages schisms and splinter sects who all deny that each other are legitimate. It's sort of a defining characteristic. Ignoring all the commercial ones, as they are effectively all dead now, and just…

Nice write-up!
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