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Apple Vision

stratechery.com

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Re: Apple Vision

#551

Post by taeric »

interpol_p wrote: post #542
taeric wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "material-based renderer" sounds... fluff? Most any system should have it so that rendering a menu is a single line of code. Same for toolbars and other. Those are typically simple registrations of ("name" "description" handler). Anything more that that, and you are doing tailored menu/toolbar and are straying on purpose. That leads, then, to the spatial windows and APIs that go with them. And... quite frankly, I…

The gaze tracking is process isolated. Only when you tap is that location ever communicated to the application process — so they had to build a UI API that supports configurable hover behaviour where that hover behaviour is never readable by developers They've thought through the accessibility features, how VoiceOver works with the headset, dynamic type sizes, etc. Designing this sort of consistent API across a whole…

I didn't actually watch the Disney part. I saw the dad "working" in what seemed like a kitchen? Can't remember. The shallow interaction with the kids, though, gave me cringes.

Then there is the juxtaposition of, "this let's you present as if there" with the, "of course you have to fly places to be with people, so when you do, zone out like a champ"

Of course, zoning out better not need you to interact much, as hearing on a plane is tough, and pinching your neighbor is not smiled upon.

I will mostly have to take your word for it that hover actions are not observable by the application. Will make games... More amusing than usual, with no memory of being looked at for characters.

And not showing any extra peripherals is a big part of "dreams work." Physical feedback is huge, and a big part of why controllers are needed. Even just the vibration of the standard PS5 controllers go a long way. For driving games, a haptic wheel is more immersive than the vr.

Re: Apple Vision

#552

Post by sensanaty »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #93
aqme28 wrote: post #34

All these "relive your memory" videos are incredibly awkward, because of how downright sad it is to strap this on your head during your kid's birthday just to relive it on repeat like Tom Cruise in Minority Report. The real usecase is porn, but they're too tactful to say it.

If you go to any concert or other public event, half of the audience will be recording on their smartphone instead of watching. I do not see any reason why an iphone of tomorrow won’t have a 3D camera to record and share any important moments the same way as we do it now. There will be the time when we will watch dashcam and drone videos of car crashes, natural disasters and soldiers dying on battlefield sitting on a…

People keep bringing this up, but are we really trying to compare a small rectangle that fits in your pocket and takes 3 button clicks to take a picture with (double power + volume button) to a full on VR headset strapped to your head?

The apple fanaticism on this site is really something special, I see no universe in which an idiotic product like this is touted as even somewhat desirable if it didn't have the Apple logo plastered on top of it (with the associated ludicrous price tag)

Re: Apple Vision

#553

Post by gwd »

euroderf wrote: post #499
gwd wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add that the R1 chip almost certainly needs to be right next to the cameras and the display to get that 12ms response time, and about the only thing you could move off the device is the CPU and SSD... at which point, probably, why bother?

Hmm, thermal regulation. I'll bet there were early versions of Vision Pro you could cook an egg on.

Right, but that R1 chip is going to be doing work constantly, and can't be moved without increasing the latency (decreasing quality and increasing issues with vertigo); so you have to work on thermal regulation within the headset anyway. So comparing the whole package of "R1 in the headset, M2 somewhere else" vs "R1 and M2 both in the headset", is the slight reduction in heat to be diffused from having the M2 elsewhere worth all the hassle of having to figure out where to put it? It sounds like Apple's engineers have gone with "no". Time will tell.

Re: Apple Vision

#554

Post by ymolodtsov »

eep_social wrote: post #442
CharlesW wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how he writes. Maybe, but Marques Brownlee gushed about it as well ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFvXuyITwBI ), and he's not a person that pulls punches. This is an extremely ambitious, qualitatively different device than anything that's come before.

Completely agree about MKBHD. My point was strictly that Stratechery is trash. I cannot argue with Apple’s ambition but as has been hashed over in these, and many other comments I am skeptical of the adoption story. The [i]VP is a snazzy product without a market. It remains to be seen whether it will create the market in the way gpt3 did or if it will be another flop like glass, oculus, and every other attempt in the…

I will probably save a link to this discussion to check in on you in 5 years.

Re: Apple Vision

#555

Post by DrThunder »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #280
DrThunder wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe... it's also entirely possible this will go the way of Google glass.

I seriously doubt people are going to walk into a bar and get punched with Vision Pro on their heads. Apple had years to look at everything everyone else did wrong.

No, I didn't mean it would be used exactly the same and people getting punched was not the reason Google Glass failed. It failed because it was pricey and no one saw a need to be walking around with a mixed reality device.

I can't see Apple Vision doing anything better than me just using a normal kvm input. Hand gestures are incredibly overrated and so is seeing things in VR. It works to make games more immersive but that's about it.

Re: Apple Vision

#556

Post by TobyTheDog123 »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #343
TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I dont understand all the doomerism. If Apple is totally bullshitting here, we're going to find out extremely quickly, which will undoubtedly harm their reputation in the space when it comes to the next generations. If they weren't confident it works almost as magically as its described, it would not have been shown.

Skepticism is not doomerism— and in fact should be praised. Multiple companies have tried and failed. Their marketing demos looked just as compelling. Sure, we will find out. Eventually. In over a year when it launches. But until then, why should we trust companies who’s best interest is not to give us the truth on what their product is but rather the best possible vision for what it will be? So far every single iter…

>Skepticism is not doomerism— and in fact should be praised.

Assuming something is going to fail, like many are across Hacker News since the announcement dropped (perhaps not in this thread), is doomerism. There's a difference between that and expressing concern over Apple's claims.

>Their marketing demos looked just as compelling.

I could not disagree more. I could have not been less interested in Oculus nor Google Glass from their advertisements. But an AR experience (as opposed to VR) that integrates with my Mac and iPhone? It has my attention.

>why should we trust companies who’s best interest is not to give us the truth on what their product is but rather the best possible vision for what it will be

Because Apple has delivered high quality products the vast majority of the time (butterfly keyboards and App Store limitations notwithstanding). Why would we assume they're suddenly dropping the ball on this, when they're on stage calling it the future of computing?

> This might certainly be different, but until it’s proven that it is, why should people believe it?

It all comes down to the company producing it - Apple hasn't made a device like this before, and comparing Apple's products to Meta's and Google's is a terrible metric to go by. It's like eating gas station sushi, getting sick, then going to an upscale sushi bar, and saying "Ohhh I've had terrible experience with Sushi in the past"

Even if you aren't willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a company that consistently produces high quality products and building a brand new product line, express that very healthy skepticism by trying it out at an Apple Store before purchasing - at that price tag, I sure am.

Re: Apple Vision

#557

Post by ruh-roh »

cubefox wrote: post #503
Mimmy wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To provide an alternative perspective, your comment convinced me to read the article and I didn't think it was substantive at all. Can you give an example of an "sharp" "observation" he made?

That the device will, if successful, make us even more lonely.

Yes - that mental picture of a divorced dad watching old family photos come to life, while sitting alone on his couch - is just gutting. Like a literal punch in the gut.

But having said that, is "loneliness" the correct (or only) takeaway on that? I mean, there are people toying with the idea of uploading emails and documents of the deceased to an LLM so relatives can still "talk" to them.

I don't have a word for what that kind of world looks like.

Re: Apple Vision

#558

Post by penjelly »

CharlesW wrote: post #431
eep_social wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it seems like he’s gushing, he is. This is how he writes. If you ever read him on a topic where you are an actual expert, you’ll probably never bother reading him again.

> This is how he writes. Maybe, but Marques Brownlee gushed about it as well ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFvXuyITwBI ), and he's not a person that pulls punches. This is an extremely ambitious, qualitatively different device than anything that's come before.

> This is an extremely ambitious, qualitatively different device than anything that's come before.

what exactly is different? I see high quality display, foveated rengering, and controller-less control... anything else im missing?

Re: Apple Vision

#559

Post by BitwiseFool »

ruh-roh wrote: post #557
cubefox wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the device will, if successful, make us even more lonely.

Yes - that mental picture of a divorced dad watching old family photos come to life, while sitting alone on his couch - is just gutting. Like a literal punch in the gut. But having said that, is "loneliness" the correct (or only) takeaway on that? I mean, there are people toying with the idea of uploading emails and documents of the deceased to an LLM so relatives can still "talk" to them. I don't have a word for wha…

Given how good Apple is at crafting images, I can't believe no one caught how sad and pitiful the scene can look. Surely they could have made the dad a grandfather and made it look much less bleak?

Re: Apple Vision

#560

Post by CharlesW »

penjelly wrote: post #558
CharlesW wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how he writes. Maybe, but Marques Brownlee gushed about it as well ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFvXuyITwBI ), and he's not a person that pulls punches. This is an extremely ambitious, qualitatively different device than anything that's come before.

> This is an extremely ambitious, qualitatively different device than anything that's come before. what exactly is different? I see high quality display, foveated rengering, and controller-less control... anything else im missing?

I used the word "qualitatively" because you're right — most of the concepts we see in Apple Vision Pro aren't unfamiliar, but the implementation/execution is radically different.

For example, the Quest has a passthrough feature, but as of Monday it seems incredibly quaint. From reports, the Apple Vision Pro completely sells the "mixed reality" effect.

"My first moment with Vision Pro seeing the physical room viewed through the headset's display in passthrough, I looked down at my own hands and it felt as if I was looking at them directly. This was a powerful moment, more powerful than any previous 'first' I'd experienced in VR. I feel the need to reiterate. I was looking at my own hands reconstructed by a headset's sensors and it felt as if I was looking at them directly." https://www.uploadvr.com/apple-vision-pro/

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