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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#551

Post by eastbound »

CalRobert wrote: post #445
usrusr wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is a "the grass is bleaker on the other side" situation. As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked, impossible to do spontaneous things like walk a few stops, ride with an acquaintance or something like that that would eventually take me home, but not return to some previous stage. With a car…

True freedom is a folding bike! Ride to point a, take your Brompton with you on the train to point B, ride to point c, etc.

True freedom is city bikes. Go anywhere worry-free, empty handed, come back using a simple card. 35€ per year in Lyon, France. Unplanned arrival at 1am in the wrong train station? A bike is still waiting for you.

Drawbacks: It’s only free for 30 minutes per trip; Sometimes you still get the bike stolen for 150€.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#552

Post by t0bia_s »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #111
wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

Because trains don’t go everywhere.

But with combination of bus you are able to go almost everywhere in Czechia.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#553

Post by 65 »

CalRobert wrote: post #101

It's been a decade-long journey but my wife and I finally got EU citizenship and are picking where to live (Utrecht and Freiburg are the frontrunners) specifically so our child can have a proper, independent childhood, and not the painfully lonely, infantilizing, ones we had in stroad-infested Californian suburbs. We're not young! But I applaud this development.

What is the need to move to the EU? You can find walkable US cities in places like New York, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, DC, etc. Perhaps you'd like the North East.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#554

Post by harvey9 »

bluGill wrote: post #237
maxsilver wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because most people don't have the luxury of choosing those things. - I don't have any meaningful control over where I'm allowed to work - I don't have any meaningful control over where my spouse is allowed to work - I only have a tiny amount of control over where I'm allowed to live (most of it prices us out, despite being above-average income) - even if I do exercise some control, it can be changed or stripped from…

The 15 minute city isn't one you never leave, it is one where basic tasks of life are within 15 minutes. Most people will leave it for work, but they will stop and play within 15 minutes of home. Otherwise you are spot on. If your company moves offices within the same city's MSA they assume you can get there. If they move office to a different city they will pay to move you.

Don't assume most people will leave it for work. Oxford, England intends to charge people who drive across a 15 minute zone boundary more than a few times a week. https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23073992.traffic-filters-w...

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#555

Post by flangola7 »

tropicalbeach wrote: post #470
usrusr wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is a "the grass is bleaker on the other side" situation. As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked, impossible to do spontaneous things like walk a few stops, ride with an acquaintance or something like that that would eventually take me home, but not return to some previous stage. With a car…

You still have that freedom to walk anywhere after parking you know. I have done this 100’s of times. Just park then from there go anywhere you want then just take a taxi or lyft back to your car. Public transport sucks, not sure why so many people people like it. Driving is much better unless you live in a large city like NY or LA. My own climate control, radio for music and podcasts, plus driving is therapeutic. I…

> Just park then from there go anywhere you want then just take a taxi or lyft back to your car.

I thought I had heard it all but "take a lyft back to the parking lot your car is in" is a new low in car culture degeneracy.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#556

Post by codexb »

overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

I can accept that people can find happiness in vastly different situations, but the "city life" is devoid of a lot of the things that people living in the suburbs and rural areas enjoy that require having a car.

People who collect things, or have a workshop in their garage, or go fishing, or hunting, or real hiking, or any outdoor activity really, or who have children (especially more than one).

If I lived in the city, I would probably get rid of my car and just rent one when I needed it. But I just don't really want to live in the city because none of the stuff I enjoy most is there.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#557

Post by LeftHandPath »

I think another thing that's being missed is that, due to EPA regulations, cars aren't really all that sexy anymore. The Maserati MC20 is a V6. The C63 AMG is has dropped from its namesake 6.3-liter V8 already, and will soon be a small displacement twin-turbo i4. That's not very exciting.

This wouldn't be problematic if the replacement were better, but it's not. Try going on a long road trip in an electric car: depending on your origin and destination, it may or may not be possible. It will take a significant multiple of the time it would've taken in an ICE car.

It's no wonder today's youth aren't interested in anemic ICE cars - they aren't as cool or exciting as they used to be. And electric cars are only really viable/useful for the rich (with garages to charge them in) and/or those who live in densely populated areas where they don't have to drive very far... and those places usually have viable public alternatives that young people without families are happy to use instead.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#558

Post by [deleted] »

yonaguska wrote: post #536
Insanity wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used public transportation (and cycling) throughout most of my twenties and only got my own car in my thirties. Public transport only works when you live in an urban area with good connections. Where I used to live, public transport was often delayed, or on strike. During winter it was annoying to have to wait in the cold for a bus or train that had 30+ minutes delay. And during rush hour the train and bus were so…

Yep, once I started cycling, public transportation became a painful exercise in constraint. I would even prefer to cycle through freezing temperatures on icy roads rather than cram myself into a train or on a bus. Luckily for me, the bike ride was a 20 minute commute for most of my 20s, while the bus/train would be 40 minutes, and a care would also be about 30-40 minutes with traffic. True freedom for me is the motor…

[deleted]

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#559

Post by Der_Einzige »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #303
taylodl wrote: post #287

The young are falling out of love with cars because they're unaffordable. It's as simple as that. It's yet another sign the standard of living is declining for the young. The average new car price in the U.S. is now over $47K (Consumer Reports). I make a good living and I'm not going to pay that kind of money for a new car! A young person would be stupid to pay that kind of money for a car. Okay, so what about used c…

There are plenty of very high quality vehicles available for purchase at less than $47k for new and $28k for used. The average sale price is skewed by people choosing luxury purchases by buying larger (and fancier) than necessary vehicles. Also can be skewed by vehicles lasting longer in the first place, meaning poorer people do not need to buy cars as often, but richer people can choose to buy cars more often.

Young people want fun "cheap" cars. E.g. the Miata, 86, WRX, Civic SI/type R.

All of these cars ended up with significant markups over MSRP due to COVID and some (e.g. type R) are still massively marked up.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#560

Post by ianburrell »

crazygringo wrote: post #336
maxsilver wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars did not get more expensive in the last 30-40 years vs CPI and much more accessible vs median let alone average income. This is objectively false, cars absolutely did get more expensive in the last 30 years, they cost about double what they did in 1990, even after accounting for inflation. (see https://thesoundingline.com/since-1990-the-price-of-a-cheap-... as just one example of the math on that). They may "la…

Your link shows an extremely outlier case, which is the absolute cheapest car available (not a representative or average car) compared to the median income (which is different from inflation). It's easy to look up prices for something average though. A 1990 Toyota Camry was $11,588 MSRP [1]. A 2022 Toyta Camry is $25,395 MSRP [2]. That's a nominal increase of 119%. Meanwhile, the CPI increase from 1990 to 2022 was 12…

Also, the 2022 Camry is a significantly bigger car. The 1990 was a compact, like the Corolla today. The 2022 is a midsize car. Comparing 1990 Camry to 2022 Corolla would make more sense.
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