I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you • Hacker News Board

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#551

Post by nluken » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 3:48 PM UTC

plastiquebeech wrote: post #496

krisoft wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he'd have missed out on his subsequent personal growth Maybe. Maybe not. People say these kind of things, but it is often a retcon aimed to help them deal with some emotion. Maybe he would have asked his agent to agree on a deal. The agent would have got him a tiny percentage and he would have spent the money to bring something wonderfull to the world. During which process he would have attained even more personal…

Call it what you want. If you spend all your time whinging about misfortune, you'll never grow. As Marcus Aurelius wrote sometime around 170CE: >It’s unfortunate that this has happened. No. It’s fortunate that this has happened and I’ve remained unharmed by it—not shattered by the present or frightened of the future. ... >So remember this principle when something threatens to cause you pain: the thing itself was no m…

So you shouldn't have empathy because it's a waste of time and emotion? That seems like a depressingly selfish outlook on life. I understand not trying to get up in arms about everything but to just ignore it...

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#552

Post by simmerup » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

neilv wrote: post #497

simmerup wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the artist told them 20k wasn’t good enough he probably would have lost the job. This was he gets the job and the what if musing

Or the agent goes and says "He's an artist who loves your game -- like it's a triumph of human expression -- he can see the heart of it, and he done something pretty special that's worthy to be a capstone for the player's experience. You understand true art is about more than money. What do you think about these couple changes I've marked up, to show he's valued in a way that's meaningful to him? In addition to the s…

Well... he wrote a poem that gets displayed at the game end. He’s likely not getting shares for that. But I take your point.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#553

Post by imtringued » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

thrwy_918 wrote: post #530

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #40

I feel for the guy, making a living off of art is difficult. However, with an extensive email chain explaining the story was written as the ending of Minecraft, even going into detail about how it was to be displayed in game, an agreed upon offer (if a bit vague), and then an exchange of funds - with no immediate attempt to return said funds. I'm no lawyer, but that sounds a lot like a legally binding agreement. > So…

> However, with an extensive email chain explaining the story was written as the ending of Minecraft, even going into detail about how it was to be displayed in game, an agreed upon offer (if a bit vague), and then an exchange of funds - with no immediate attempt to return said funds. I'm no lawyer, but that sounds a lot like a legally binding agreement. It sounds like an awful, muddy mess that would take a great dea…

He could win in court and then what?

Microsoft would remove his poem and nobody would read it ever again. He can only lose.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#554

Post by jrochkind1 » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

mikkom wrote: post #391

pdpi wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It certainly doesn't seem like the ending provided disproportionate value to Mojang compared to the work of their staff. Notch’s choice to make it hard to skip/speed up the text scrolling suggests that he thought it had disproportionate value.

And that's why he paid 20000 euros for it, right? I don't understand what this guy is complaining about to be honest.

Is he complaining?

I don't think so? He does say he has had hurt feelings. Do you mean you don't understand why he has hurt feelings?

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#555

Post by jrochkind1 » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 3:52 PM UTC

pgsandstrom wrote: post #149

rosywoozlechan wrote: post #41

That's a lot of anger, negativity and bitterness, and entitlement (one of the game's creators for writing the ending text?). Reminds me of the kid on the cover of the Nevermind album and other people that are kinda tangentially connected to something massively successful, but not connected enough to benefit materially, and they let that define who they are and ruin their lives. Could have been a neat personal story,…

Im honestly chocked that people react so negatively to this piece. Yes, the author expresses many negative and self centered emotions. He is very clear about that. It is part of the story. It is a story about being a flawed person. I sympathize with him. I loved this piece. I hope he truly did let go of all the hangups he described. And it does seem that he actually did sell the the rights of use to microsoft, making…

Agreed. This whole comment thread is making me feel more negative about HN than I have before.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#556

Post by mistermann » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 3:52 PM UTC

pgsandstrom wrote: post #149

rosywoozlechan wrote: post #41

That's a lot of anger, negativity and bitterness, and entitlement (one of the game's creators for writing the ending text?). Reminds me of the kid on the cover of the Nevermind album and other people that are kinda tangentially connected to something massively successful, but not connected enough to benefit materially, and they let that define who they are and ruin their lives. Could have been a neat personal story,…

Im honestly chocked that people react so negatively to this piece. Yes, the author expresses many negative and self centered emotions. He is very clear about that. It is part of the story. It is a story about being a flawed person. I sympathize with him. I loved this piece. I hope he truly did let go of all the hangups he described. And it does seem that he actually did sell the the rights of use to microsoft, making…

I think there's something beautiful about the combination of the content of the post and the content of this comment section. It seems almost too perfect.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#557

Post by europeanguy » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 3:57 PM UTC

europeanguy wrote: post #443

kergonath wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't say he was greedy Yes, sorry, that was in other posts and it got blurred. I did not want to put words into your mouth. > He doesn't want to do the legwork of determining the terms, instead he expects that someone else does He explains why he did not involve his agent, and also that he does not expect anyone to do it. Otherwise he’d have plenty of opportunities to do it. He sounds entitled in that he has we…

> he just sounds like someone hurt that the world does not work as they thought Exactly, that's another facet of his entitlement that I have deep content for. Many good people work hard to figure out how the world works. Other people have in mind how it should work and get upset when it doesn't.

*contempt

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#558

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 3:59 PM UTC

asperous wrote: post #55

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #40

I feel for the guy, making a living off of art is difficult. However, with an extensive email chain explaining the story was written as the ending of Minecraft, even going into detail about how it was to be displayed in game, an agreed upon offer (if a bit vague), and then an exchange of funds - with no immediate attempt to return said funds. I'm no lawyer, but that sounds a lot like a legally binding agreement. > So…

If he actually received $20,000 that still seems like a lot? Especially in a world where freelance writing is $0.01-$0.50 (pre-GPT3). And it sounds like at the time it was good money for the artist. I get that he feels like he was given a small amount relative to the great success of Minecraft, but I would hope he also realizes that it was risk free cash.

[deleted]

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#559

Post by plastiquebeech » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 3:59 PM UTC

nluken wrote: post #551

plastiquebeech wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call it what you want. If you spend all your time whinging about misfortune, you'll never grow. As Marcus Aurelius wrote sometime around 170CE: >It’s unfortunate that this has happened. No. It’s fortunate that this has happened and I’ve remained unharmed by it—not shattered by the present or frightened of the future. ... >So remember this principle when something threatens to cause you pain: the thing itself was no m…

So you shouldn't have empathy because it's a waste of time and emotion? That seems like a depressingly selfish outlook on life. I understand not trying to get up in arms about everything but to just ignore it...

I think he was trying to express the importance of resilience. Things that happen, stay happened. So the best outcome for yourself following misfortune is to move ahead as best you can.

Personally, I don't think that stoicism is a good fit for modern times, because it conflates virtue with foregoing strong emotions, and leaving other people to their mistakes.

It does have its share of worthwhile lessons though, and if you dig a little deeper you'll find that it encourages guiding and explaining when people are wrong, rather than getting upset with them about perceived moral or practical failures.

Re: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft and give it to you

#560

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Dec 08, 2022, 4:00 PM UTC

spuz wrote: post #186

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #40

I feel for the guy, making a living off of art is difficult. However, with an extensive email chain explaining the story was written as the ending of Minecraft, even going into detail about how it was to be displayed in game, an agreed upon offer (if a bit vague), and then an exchange of funds - with no immediate attempt to return said funds. I'm no lawyer, but that sounds a lot like a legally binding agreement. > So…

My interpretation of the legal status is that the author is entitled to accept the €20k as payment for his time but that amount doesn't constitute payment for the copyright of the work. Mojang subsequently wanted to purchase that copyright and hence why they sent the contract for £1 to be signed. Julian believed the copyright was worth more and so rejected the offer. All that is to say that if my interpretation is co…

It kind of reminds me of the story of Clare Torry, who did the vocals on Pink Floyd's The Great Gig In The Sky[1], and received the standard £30 flat fee for session work. Of course the song ended up being a critical piece of an album that went on to be one of the best selling albums in the history of music. Sometimes, we make a big contribution to something and don't end up with a big payoff. It's sad that business shrewdness and negotiating skills tend to have a higher ROI than actual subject matter talent.

Torry ended up suing and they settled out of court, so I guess that's a win.