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U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#551

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

lkrubner wrote: post #98
bdw5204 wrote: post #11

I think there's a very obvious reason for the "productivity drop": Return to Office I remember tons of studies showing that remote work had caused unprecedented increases in productivity so it seems plausible to me that companies ending it caused the productivity drop which caused the minor recession earlier this year (the big one due to the Fed's rate hikes is, I believe, still in the future). The article itself eve…

The BLS recently reported that at its peak, only 7% of Americans were working from home, so this demographic is probably too small to have much large scale impact on the productivity numbers. If there is stagnation in the productivity numbers, we should look at what the other 93% of workers are doing.

Damn. Was it really that low? I ran into census data stating the following:

"Between 2019 and 2021, the number of people primarily working from home tripled from 5.7% (roughly 9 million people) to 17.9% (27.6 million people), according to new 2021 American Community Survey (ACS) 1-year estimates released today by the U.S. Census Bureau."

I Initially thought maybe the issue is average reported over years, but that does not seem to match either so I went to BLS[2] and the 7% number is there, but it is for for April 2022 and not its peak.

Chart data suggests double digit average.

Please correct me if I am misreading something.

[1]https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/people-w... [2]https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2022/7-7-percent-of-workers-tel...

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#553

Post by cersei »

Probably the long-term effects of COVID which causes exhaustion, brain fog, depression, etc... Combined perhaps by people having had time to reset and reflect on their life. Combined by the fact that the planet and democracy are dying.

These are theories of course, but I don't think one has to always look for very complex or technology related answers.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#554

Post by qeternity »

cashsterling wrote: post #314

The article doesn't talk about how productivity is measured and the actual sensitivity and accuracy of the measurement(s). As others have pointed out, measuring productivity is a little hazy and probably is influenced by subjective bias (hey a recession might be coming... hmm, I feel like less work is getting done at my office). I wonder how much bias affects the reported measurements? I doubt businesses outside of m…

> I wonder how much bias affects the reported measurements?

They don’t, because productivity is not self-reported. It’s also not measured the way you imply.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#555

Post by ddoolin »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #538
blooalien wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno if they are saying that, but I wholeheartedly endorse this idea. Add the "client side junk" (fancy Javascript stuff, etc.) as enhancement on top for those who want it after the required functionality is being properly and reliably served by the "core technologies". Serve the need properly first, then make it "nice".

The problem is that people make the decision about what to use as inexpert users and that pretty GUI with all the space and Next buttons looks so easy to use to them. By the time they realize they didn’t actually want it, it’s too late. This is the reason people stick with things like Excel, it’s easy to transition up the sophistication ladder.

I don't have much to add, but you really nailed the sentiment I was going for exactly. I have been lucky to both be serving a very small user group that I can work closely with, and one whose existing workflows still exist and they can go back to if ours suck, so we _have_ to be better.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#557

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

rtp4me wrote: post #300
SauciestGNU wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no kidding. If it were demanded of me to RTO after this time of working remote, they wouldn't get quiet quitting, they'd get active sabotage while I search for a new job. There's no excuse for torturing ICs with RTO for reasons of executive vanity.

Wait, are you saying you would actively sabotage your place of employment because they asked you to work in the office? Did you have the same feeling before WFH was even a thing? Edit: Also, what does "torturing ICs with RTO for reasons of executive vanity" even mean? Have we come so far that working from an office is now "torture"? If so, the level of privilege is simply astounding...

I am not the parent, but I believe I can answer, because my thoughts on the few days that I do venture into office border on postal. In my defense, I hate people who invented mornings with a passion reserved for people, who hurt puppies for amusement.

When I see phrases like "executive vanity", I immediately picture a manager, who saw the productivity numbers gained and decided that those do no matter ( and some of us did go above and beyond specifically to show that there is a benefit to WFH for companies ) and instead opted for butts in chairs for no other reason than "I want to feel like I still matter". Some executives refers to this as management by walking.

It is kinda like this. We all know WFH is possible. We know it results in good results for the company and yet management opts to RTO. They want me to commute, force me to get up extra early, almost kill people on the way two work if I do drive by car ( because I am sleepy; not because I am postal ) and somehow match the productivity that was happening precisely because we implemented WFH? Yes, by comparison it is torture. I had a glimpse of heaven and it was forcibly taken away from me ( it wasn't taken from me, but please understand that this is the mindset ).

edit: And, if you buy into one specific poem I will not name, hell is everyone but heaven and therefore torture.

Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant. Put yourself in their shoes. See the world through their eyes.

If not, a good chunk of the people, who managed to keep the companies afloat during covid will bounce ( and some did ), because those are the people that actually knew what to do when SHTF.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#558

Post by klyrs »

yurishimo wrote: post #393
robertlagrant wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. All the systems are set up this way. The problem is: how do you allow departments to retain their fiefdoms in a world of centralised data? The answer is to spend a fortune on management consulting.

Or nationalize the documentation infrastructure. This is not a problem in the developed world. i give my doctor my tax ID and they can see my entire patient history, all of my medication, and relevant notes from other providers.

That won't happen in a federation like US or Canada, sadly. The states (provinces) would have to either agree on an infrastructure (hah!) or agree to give that power to the federal government (OMG lol).

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#559

Post by xnx »

jjk166 wrote: post #362

US Worker productivity is 0.7 standard deviations below its average over the last 3 years. It is 3.6% below all time high. It is higher now than at any point before July of 2020. YOY Productivity growth has dipped negative and then went back to positive 20 times in the past 22 years. To be concerned about the current level of productivity requires either the attention span or the intelligence of a goldfish. https://t…

Thanks for adding some context. The "max" or 25 year view on that chart provides some perspective. Still unusual that there's been a recent decrease, but almost every measure of the economy has seen some really weird values in the past 2 years.

Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why

#560

Post by TeMPOraL »

mbesto wrote: post #374
lanstin wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more productive if the person just knows if the procedure is covered because the insurance companies have stable standards and trust the medical providers rather than having it all be JIT decisions based on rules that either constantly shift or are so vague/low trust as to be "you medical person yourself can't decide if this procedure is covered, you have to call us." And back in the paper days, the staff would…

> if the person just knows if the procedure is covered because the insurance companies have stable standards and trust the medical providers rather than having it all be JIT decisions based on rules that either constantly shift or are so vague/low trust None those are related to use or lack of use of technology. Those are purely bureaucratic rules setup by insurance carriers. > And back in the paper days, the staff w…

> None those are related to use or lack of use of technology. Those are purely bureaucratic rules setup by insurance carriers.

They are very much related to use of technology, because they are enabled by technology. The degree of bullshit paperwork every white-collar worker has to deal with nowadays is a direct consequence of computers making it possible to make us do that work, and for the recipients to process it.

The benefits of those processes are whatever they are designed to be, but this creates a false image of net productivity, because the costs are now hidden, smeared across everyone's workload, adding to a vague sense of dissatisfaction and low productivity. In contrast, if you tried the same processes few decades ago, it would mean hiring dedicated people on both ends, and the costs - as measured by their salaries - would be clearly visible.

> I can't believe I'm having to explain to someone the productivity advantages of a system of record to a technology focused crowd...

You don't have to. But you're missing the disadvantages of the situation when maintenance of that system of records becomes a job distributed across everyone. It's not the digital recording per se that's the problem, but the fact that everyone is now also their own secretary.

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