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Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

economist.com

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Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#551

Post by peoplefromibiza »

whimsicalism wrote: post #549
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say there is no difference, I've specifically said that their status is similar. Catalunya has a quite conflictual relationship with Spain and the level of conflict has raised in the past few years. Catalonia is not a country, Taiwan is not a country. Some of us might think that they deserve to be independent, but that's not their current political status, so calling Taiwan a country is technically wrong, ju…

Taiwan is de facto independent in their governance. Catalonia is not even close. This is about their current status, not about what they "deserve."

> Taiwan is de facto independent in their governance. Catalonia is not even close

If only Catalonia was interesting enough for the US to send their army on the borders...

That's one big difference.

Anyway, de facto doesn't mean anything here.

Taiwan is officially not a country.

If you don't like the comparison to Catalonia, lookup Cyprus.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#552

Post by whimsicalism »

tonguez wrote: post #533
whimsicalism wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean a "fair bit beyond"? I don't think imprisoning a large proportion of a certain ethnic group due to BS laws around extremist ideology is all that different from imprisoning an even greater number of a different ethnic group (1 in 3 black men imprisoned) due to BS laws producing a 100:1 sentencing disparity based on which drug is more popular among a certain ethnic group.

"I don't think imprisoning a large proportion of a certain ethnic group due to BS laws around extremist ideology is all that different from imprisoning an even greater number of a different ethnic group (1 in 3 black men imprisoned) due to BS laws producing a 100:1 sentencing disparity based on which drug is more popular among a certain ethnic group." You think 1 in 3 black men imprisoned is due to crack vs cocaine l…

In the 90s, the majority of people in federal prison were due to drug offenses, primarily cocaine. [0] The sentencing disparity was a big driver of these increase imprisonment rates.

But no, not all because of the disparity - but a large part. Illegal guns are another big offense sending lots of black people to prison.

> African Americans now serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense at 58.7 months, as whites do for a violent offense at 61.7 months [1]

[0]: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/sp/DimRet.pdf [1]: https://www.aclu.org/other/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-fed...

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#553

Post by notpachet »

satronaut wrote: post #514
notpachet wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they're going to the same grocery stores as the rest of us. Often they have to ride public transport to get to their appointments. And so on. Thinking that this is just a matter of people's social enjoyment is naive.

I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this. You clearly forgot what life was like before the news scared us into shutting down and will never feel comfortable operating in society again. That's fine, but don't bring others down with you.

You're clearly pining for a world that no longer exists.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#554

Post by whimsicalism »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #551
whimsicalism wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan is de facto independent in their governance. Catalonia is not even close. This is about their current status, not about what they "deserve."

> Taiwan is de facto independent in their governance. Catalonia is not even close If only Catalonia was interesting enough for the US to send their army on the borders... That's one big difference. Anyway, de facto doesn't mean anything here. Taiwan is officially not a country. If you don't like the comparison to Catalonia, lookup Cyprus.

Cyprus is a much better example than Catalonia.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#555

Post by peoplefromibiza »

whimsicalism wrote: post #554
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taiwan is de facto independent in their governance. Catalonia is not even close If only Catalonia was interesting enough for the US to send their army on the borders... That's one big difference. Anyway, de facto doesn't mean anything here. Taiwan is officially not a country. If you don't like the comparison to Catalonia, lookup Cyprus.

Cyprus is a much better example than Catalonia.

And in fact nobody calls it a country.

I mean, I understand that in US Taiwan is recognized as a country, in Italy Palestin is recognized as such too, but they are not officially sovereign countries and protest from mainland are to be expected because it's a very complicated international matter and of course China uses all the tools they have to support their position, just like the US.

Do you remember what happened when Trump recognized Jerusalem as Israel capital?

Conflicts over sovereignty on land are as old as the human race.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#556

Post by [deleted] »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #510
forty wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm French, I hope we (France, EU) follow your lead.

I am French as well, and proud to be one. France weights exactly nothing in such politics. Let's take an easier case: the hijacking of the Estonian plane over Belarus to imprison Roman Protasevich ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanair_Flight_4978 ). Everyone was outraged, Macron had his martial face to say that we will not tolerate this (I voted for Macron, to be clear). What happened? Exactly nothing. And this is…

[deleted]

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#557

Post by cosmodisk »

eunos wrote: post #465
cosmodisk wrote: post #326

Lithuanian here too. I'm 100% certain PRC will try to inflict as much pain on my own country via some side pressure to larger companies that have footprint in the country or by pressing applying political pressure to other countries. Some say we just do what the US tell us. The others say we should shut up and know our place. But the reality is that this isn't Nazi Germany v2. It's a country that is unparallel in pop…

Pressures for replacing Lithuanian products already started. Ironically, commerce between Taiwan and mainland do not show sign of weakness.

The trade with Taiwan will unlikely to replace trade with China purely because of the scale of Chinese market, however it will hopefully act as an indicator of how things are to those who work/planning to with China.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#558

Post by fvv »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #99
subroutine wrote: post #44

China would be much better off if they just gave up on the whole Taiwan charade. I understand how badly they want to put Taiwan under thumb like they did HK, but Taiwan is really the only issue I foresee with potential to derail China's progress.

It isn't that easy. It's not just China's government that believes Taiwan is part of China — China's people also believe that. There is a saying that if China is democratic, they would have invaded Taiwan yesterday. Or another saying: if the president lets go of Taiwan, the CCP would be overthrown tomorrow. Another factor that complicates things is the fact that Taiwan is a strategic location for the US's military co…

China peoples believe what the ccp tell them to believe with their indoctrination, military containment story included Taiwan is a free and democratic coun3tey and a quite decent one in recent history.. bullying a country for for fake historical reunification purposes is not different from religious motivation and the world should take stance

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#559

Post by luckylion »

dustintrex wrote: post #517
luckylion wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They signed an agreement in the early 70ies ("Grundlagenvertrag") outlining their relationships and had mutual defacto-embassies ("Ständige Vertretung") and called the heads of those ambassadors (at least the GDR did, I believe the FRG did not, but they were ambassadors for all intents and purposes).

That does not sound hugely different from China and Taiwan, which, despite the bluster, also de facto recognize each other in all sorts of ways like having quasi-diplomatic representatives, issuing travel documents to each other's citizens, etc.

Having embassies, recognizing the other side's sovereignty and not considering them a rebellious province of your own state sounds very different from the China/Taiwan situation to me.

Germany's two halves treated each other as neighbors and did not consider the other side an opponent in a war that's temporarily paused (after the initial conflict, but that was mostly the Soviets trying to take Berlin by starving the population). In case you're wondering: the Berlin Wall does not suggest differently, it was meant to stop people from fleeing the socialist East Germany ("Republikflucht", literally flight from the republic, was a crime in the GDR, and they killed quite a few that sought freedom from the "worker's paradise"), it was never meant to keep invaders out.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#560

Post by [deleted] »

nowherebeen wrote: post #541
picture wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who have spent 13 or so years of their life in China, I absolutely agree with this perspective. The culture of modern China seem to support a strangely "macho" image particularly for men: it's acceptable and maybe even encouraged, for men to be overtaken by rage, and thrash and kick around while yelling things. [1] It looks like this mentality is reflected by the politics of china as a whole. [1]: This is…

This is ridiculously and demeaning to the Chinese people. Losing your temper is universal and I have seen plenty of white friends that lash out. To say that only Chinese people behave this way and not white people is well at best a sign of superiority complex and at worst a subtle _______ remark.

[deleted]
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