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President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

purdueexponent.org

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Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#551

Post by gkop »

stickfigure wrote: post #457
yholio wrote: post #198

It's a very weak response from Purdue. Zhihao Kong was bullied and followed around on campus for commemorating the victims of the Tiananmen masacre. He was called a CIA agent by fellow Purdue students and was reported to the Chinese state, who attempted to silence him by forcefully leaning on his family in Hong Kong. The identities of the bullies is well known and the extent of abuse is borderline criminal. There sho…

200 Chinese students have no material financial impact in a body of 35,000 students. I'm inclined to take the statement at face value, and won't be surprised if more actions come as they work out the facts.

Public universities make their tuition money on the out-of-state and foreign students, so your denominator here is an order of magnitude too big. Every marginal out-of-state or foreign student lost, is one or more in-state students whose tuition cannot be subsidized.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#552

Post by Nevermark »

rkk3 wrote: post #507
vhgyu75e6u wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ones that block freedom of the press, block and censore the internet, deploy military force against civilians, anex peaceful territories by force, push other democracies to overwrite their history, and commit genocide... So the Chinese government.

And those are all things the US, the UK and most western government's have done & will do again.

Nobody is going to show up at your home for saying so. Many US citizens will agree with you.

A country which improves its behavior through self-criticism from its citizens is not a tyranny. It is just a government that makes serious mistakes.

No form of government has managed to avoid that yet.

Democracy and freedom don't guarantee the majority will behave well all the time. But they systematically leave the door open for improvement - even if it takes a lot of effort.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#553

Post by dgb23 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #281
sschueller wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would compare Tiananmen Square with the Tulsa race massacre. How many Americans don't know about it? The time I spend in the US I had the feeling that you have more of a pseudo freedom than actual freedom. Everyone keeps saying how free they are and how great their country is yet you can't even drink an alcoholic beverage on the street without getting arrested. You go to a town festival and the people who want to d…

> Everyone keeps saying how free they are and how great their country is yet you can't even drink an alcoholic beverage on the street without getting arrested. You go to a town festival and the people who want to drink are enclosed in a small area like cattle. Public space alcohol consumption is one of the weirdest metrics I’ve seen to gauge freedom. But for what it’s worth, laws regarding public alcohol consumption…

> But freedom doesn’t mean anarchy. If you want to nit pick individual restrictions on non-speech activities in public spaces then you can find something to complain about every country.

Anarchism is based on freely agreed rules and organization. It denies rulers, not rules. I find this to be a necessary condition for freedom. So yes, one can find something to complain about pretty much every country if arguing from freedom. The status quo is not a good excuse for lack of freedom, that's just circular reasoning.

I urge everyone not to fall into the trap of the "Us vs Them" rhetoric that almost always leads to more oppression and violence. Trying to quantify freedom is moot. The enemy of freedom is corruption, fear and hate.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#554

Post by skeeter2020 »

rdiddly wrote: post #544
stickfigure wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

200 Chinese students have no material financial impact in a body of 35,000 students. I'm inclined to take the statement at face value, and won't be surprised if more actions come as they work out the facts.

200 students who would be quickly replaced with 200 other students from the wait list, I might add.

At Purdue? absolutely. THis isn't some unknown regional school but a globally recognized in-dmeand uni.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#555

Post by jakeinspace »

fallingknife wrote: post #461
Larrikin wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a public university can decide what they want to do when it comes to punishment for students they admit. You aren't owed an explanation no matter how much you pretend on the internet to care.

A public university has to respect the constitutional rights of it's students though. So there would be very strong legal protection for pro China students. Edit: actually not sure if they are foreign nationals. Maybe someone knows if same applies?

The student's citizenship makes no difference legally when it comes to First Amendment privileges.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#556

Post by bigbillheck »

zepto wrote: post #318
vmception wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay so a more apt comparison would be 30 years after the Tulsa race massacre in America to see if was easier to talk about it Or 100 years after the Tianamen Square massacre in China to see if its easier to talk about it then great. very productive.

It’s a delusional if you think that in the 50s, there were American agents intimidating their citizens abroad for talking about the Tulsa race massacre . The idea that it is OK for it to take another 50 years before the Chinese can talk about Tiananmen without fear of state reprisal, seems to be an apology for totalitarian oppression.

In the US in the 50s if you talked about race in the wrong manner you were prevented from going abroad in the first place. (See: Paul Robeson)

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#557

Post by golemotron »

disabled wrote: post #456
yholio wrote: post #198

It's a very weak response from Purdue. Zhihao Kong was bullied and followed around on campus for commemorating the victims of the Tiananmen masacre. He was called a CIA agent by fellow Purdue students and was reported to the Chinese state, who attempted to silence him by forcefully leaning on his family in Hong Kong. The identities of the bullies is well known and the extent of abuse is borderline criminal. There sho…

The thing that the Purdue University President forgot to mention: Civil Rights Act of 1964. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, gender, pregnancy, or * national origin* . Honestly, students need to understand that if they are perpetrating this violence (yes, harassment and intimidation, whether or not it is physical, is a form of violence) they wil…

Title VII applies to employers, not students.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#558

Post by kspacewalk2 »

rkk3 wrote: post #541
ch4s3 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were run over by tanks, and the PRC has made it illegal to even mention the event. Most nation states allow citizens to talk about their own history good and bad.

Quoted post unavailable.

You seek freedom? You want democracy?! You murderers! Don't you know we'll fight back for our authoritarian dictatorship and millions will die? How dare you challenge the status quo?

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#559

Post by taormina »

lazide wrote: post #489
elteto wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purdue isn't going to go bankrupt because of 200 students.

Depending on how they handle it, they could end up blacklisted by all Chinese students - which is likely a whole lot more than 200 students. That it could also (in an extreme case) cause many employers with Chinese ties to avoid alumni with Perdue ties to avoid backlash from China is an outcome they can’t ignore either. CCP is not known for rational, reasoned responses in situations like this.

Oh no, Americans would have more spots at an America university. Or students from another nation could take the opportunity. I don't see why we have to specifically import Chinese nationals for those 200 seats when there are plenty of qualified candidates both domestically and abroad.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#560

Post by s1artibartfast »

colinmhayes wrote: post #392
merpnderp wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you're down in the weeds enough. China does have freedom to a degree. Obviously there's lots of ways where they have zero freedom also. But it certainly looks like the CCP is attempting to maximize freedom where it provides utility and minimize it where it hurts their goals or prosperity. I vehemently disagree with that stance, but I do want acknowledge the CCP's actual stance.

Disappearing people who accuse the government/government officials of wrongdoing will never maximize utility.

I think that is a weak argument and difficult or impossible to prove.

The better argument is against utilitarianism itself. Humans deserve some rights even if it means less utility.

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