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Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

digitalrightswatch.org.au

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Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#551

Post by jezzzabell »

slowmotiony wrote: post #543
adamjb wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phone check in thing is for enforcing the two weeks home quarantine for returned travelers and close contacts of confirmed cases. While there are certainly slippery slope arguments to be made, let's not act like we've already slid down it.

> The phone check in thing is for enforcing the two weeks home quarantine for returned travelers and close contacts of confirmed cases. So the government can effectively just inprison you in your own house, with no proof, no recourse and no due process, because they suspect you were near some guy at some particular time some days ago. They don't even ask to get tested first! How can people on hacker news of all place…

When the alternative is thousands and thousands of deaths, most of us are willing to temporarily give up a bit of civil liberty.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#552

Post by bigbluedots »

rmak wrote: post #541
stjohnswarts wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't be any worse than what we have in the USA. I mean for god sakes, Trump actually won the presidency. Something is definitely broken in the US system (primarily voter suppression, legal corporate bribery, and gerrymandering is my theory)

There's no way Biden won the last election without manipulating mail in ballots. We all know big tech and the media helped Biden out big time.

This has been proven to be false repeatedly, yet people still claim it.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#553

Post by BoxOfRain »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #266
stjohnswarts wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know dude I just partied all weekend without any issues, no mask, no constraints on where I could go. No mandates. Seems like some places have their ducks in a row. Get vaccinated and live a little bit...

> I don't know dude I just partied all weekend without any issues, no mask, no constraints on where I could go. No mandates. During a pandemic, this is something to cringe at, not celebrate

The only thing I find cringeworthy is people who revel in “Covid Culture”, making a deliberate spectacle of what a good, compliant, obedient individual they are and what awful crimethinking, irresponsible saboteurs anyone who takes a taste of proper life again is. People who use the “it’s a pandemic stupid” line to sweep perfectly legitimate concerns about civil liberties, generational inequality, and the futures of businesses who aren’t massive chains under the carpet concern me far more than people ditching masks and going to parties do. Zero Covid is up their with young Earth creationism and homeopathy in terms of completely irrational policies. Living where avoiding getting sick and avoiding others getting sick is your primary goal isn’t a life at all, it’s an existence like that of a diary cow or a battery hen. That might be distressingly close to how politicians and their patrons privately see us mere mortals, but it’s no way for a free society to function. We aren’t just economic fuel to be burned up for the benefit of society and discarded when we’re not longer useful, we are human beings and we need a life that’s more meaningful and dignified than “stop the spread covidiot”.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#554

Post by loftyal »

roody15 wrote: post #269

I simply cannot wrap my mind around what is happening in Australia. Continuing a lockwdown while the number of positive covid cases remains in the low hundreds and the daily death rate in the lower tens to single digits. Nothing makes sense here. Draconian laws, complete shutdown over something that is and has been statistically under control and managed from months. Am I alone here or do people really think what is…

They're trying to buy enough time to get enough people vaccinated before they "let it rip". Delta has an extremely high R value and will come back in force. This way we eliminate many more unnecessary deaths. Not hard to understand.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#555

Post by omegabravo »

jlangenauer wrote: post #549
Nursie wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's given up "all their civil rights" ? That seems like a massive hyperbole. In WA, there are no lockdowns or any real coronavirus restrictions once you're in. Looks good to me. Might want to compare those death rates too.

You're not allowed to leave your state or your country with the permission of some bureaucrat, and you're claiming that you haven't given up any civil rights? I guess no-one had given up their civil rights in East Germany, or the Soviet Union then either.

Always so hyperbolic. The state border controls are for quarantine.

In states that have covid under control, that means filling out a form stating you're not sick. Rather sensible requirement during a pandemic

The banning of country exit visas is far far more controversial and doesn't have wide spread support. It seems okay as a sensible precaution at the start of the pandemic in order to ensure quarantine places were available for people who want to return to Australia. The fact that it's gone on so long without any real effort to find a better solution is poor government.

Border controls in Australia, are widely popular. Much like in the US.

The border controls will be removed once the country reaches a steady state of vaccination levels and things are as back to normal as they will get. All other controls have been removed immediately once they were no longer required.

This mass surveillance is far more concerning, and people constantly talking about temporary quarantine controls are muddying the waters of an important topic.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#556

Post by krona »

jezzzabell wrote: post #550
zarzavat wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In some like the UK, that trust was misplaced, and compliance with isolation rules was under 50%. More like, people in the UK more correctly assessed the risk of COVID. While is a dangerous disease, it's not so dangerous that it is worth giving up all of your civil rights to avoid it. In Australia the cure seems to be worse than the disease.

UK Covid deaths 133,000 vs Australia Covid deaths 1054. That's some cold-blooded calculus to say that Australia would have been better off with another 50,000 people dead rather than having some restrictions in place while they wait for vaccination targets to be reached.

Given the UK quarantine period was reduced by the chief medical officers "After reviewing the evidence" to 10 days from 14 by the start of 2021, it probably didn't make a difference.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#558

Post by WantonQuantum »

numair wrote: post #151

I’ve spent a bit of time in Australia. When I compared the caliber of people who worked in tech and venture to those in mining and law enforcement, it was night and day. There’s a TON of smart people at companies like Woodside, and lots of smart people at the Australian Federal Police (to the extent where the US and other countries rely on them for help in tricky technical situations). The tech and VC crowd seemed to…

You have an unstated assumption: that the best people in tech are attracted to startups and venture capital. In Australia that's not true. Australia is not America and you've drawn incorrect conclusions due to your incorrect assumption.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#559

Post by BoxOfRain »

xvector wrote: post #189
chadcmulligan wrote: post #127

There is a lot of trust in Australia that their elected officials and the public service / police will do the right thing. These new laws being introduced if used in the spirit they are intended could be good. The continual refusal of the current federal government to introduce a federal crime and misconduct commission as most of the states now have is a disturbing trend. For instance three local councils were placed…

> These new laws being introduced if used in the spirit they are intended could be good. Please find me an example of a government throughout any point in human history that has not turned on its citizens.

The only power that’s safe from abuse by an errant politician is one that politicians as a category aren’t allowed to wield to begin with.

I think the best guiding principle for government is to ask yourself when faced with a proposed extension to the power of politicians this question: “would I be comfortable with politicians having this power if the Cabinet consisted of people who personally hated me”. If there’s any doubt, these powers can and will be used to abuse. The rights that protect the worst of society also protect the rest of it, we remove them at our peril.

Re: Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate

#560

Post by SturgeonsLaw »

Teever wrote: post #198
WalterBright wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compulsory voting This always seemed like madness to me. You can force someone to vote, but you cannot force them to vote responsibly. They may just vote "screw you" just for revenge. The right to vote includes the right to abstain from voting when one does not care. Forced voting sounds like a recipe for bad election results. I would expect the same from paying people to vote.

I think that I would be okay with compulsory voting if there was a 'none of the above' option on the ballot. If "none of the above" wins the vote then all the people on that ballot are disqualified from running in any election for a period of time, say 10 years and there is a do-over on that particular electoral district election. I'd like to hope that would clean up politics real quick.

Yeah, that happens. One of my close friends is disillusioned with the government, and usually just uses the ballot paper as a way to "politely share his thoughts on the matter" with whoever is unfortunate enough to read it. They don't verify that a vote was cast, just that you showed up.
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