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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#551

Post by tracyshaun »

jpollock wrote: post #502
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days I saw some conspiracy theory that said this weeks ago and just shook my head at how ridiculous that would be. At least it seemed like a conspiracy theory because my view of control group was apparently something else. Emergency use authorization, for a vaccine that was never tested on humans, and both Pfizer and Moderna eliminated the control groups? What the hell!…

Once you have evidence the treatment works, it becomes unethical to not offer it to the control group. This happens in a lot of medical trials. In this specific situation, they would have been condemning through a choice to not treat, a fraction of the control group to die.

But a good chunk of them would survive... and it would be really valuable to know why they survived without a vaccine.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#552

Post by [deleted] »

seriousquestion wrote: post #412
lovecg wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you omit the first part of the quote? “If the public health professionals … tell me to take I will absolutely take it. But if Donald Trump tells us to take it, I’m not taking it.” I think this is a reasonable message of caution when talking about someone pushing HCQ and drinking bleach on the daily.

Does the first part matter in the context of what the OP was talking about? If Trump mandated it many would not take it on that basis alone. That’s the point I’m responding to. “If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the Doctors, tell us we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it I'm not taking it.“ Note “But if…”. That progra…

[deleted]

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#553

Post by jesusohchrist »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #514
jesusohchrist wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mandatory gym memberships and no sugar would end the pandemic probably faster Edit: Obesity source: 1. https://www.axios.com/bmi-obesity-severe-risk-factors-covid-... 2. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughl... BaSeLeSs BrO ScIeNcE

I'm sure the ravaged nursing homes and full hospitals wished they had found the wisdom of your baseless bro science earlier.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughl...

You were saying something mate? CDC is bro science?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#554

Post by criticaltinker »

president wrote: post #508
yupper32 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it, has turned me against the booster. You desperately need to take a step back and look at yourself and how you evaluate things. You decided to go against the booster because of your feelings, not because of science. You want government decisions to be guided by science, and yet you are very clearly anti-science with your decision making. > To many of you h…

> because of your feelings, not because of science. For the unaware, there are multitudes of highly acclaimed scientists and academics around the world from top institutions including Nobel prize winners that are advising caution against the vaccine. You don't just get to choose which "science" you listen to. These voices are massively censored so the public doesn't really get to hear both sides of the argument. The…

Yes this is a great point. The primary concerns & warnings are generally around vaccine induced immune escape, which is a realistic consequence of indiscriminate compulsory mass vaccination [1][2][3][4][5][6].

That said, there is general consensus in the literature that the vaccines are mostly safe for adults in the short term. However for certain sub-populations (eg pediatrics and pregnant women) there isn't enough evidence yet from clinical trials and longitudinal studies to conclude with certainty that the benefits of compulsory mass vaccination outweigh the risks.

[1] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/

[2] Can we predict the limits of SARS-CoV-2 variants and their phenotypic consequences? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/long-term-evoluti...

[3] Why does drug resistance readily evolve but vaccine resistance does not? https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.2016...

[4] The adaptive evolution of virulence: a review of theoretical predictions and empirical tests https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26302775/

[5] Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371%2Fj...

[6] Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#555

Post by axus »

DangerousPie wrote: post #485
albatross13 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context. It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent…

So the people opposed to vaccination are helping science by being the control group?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#556

Post by yupper32 »

president wrote: post #508
yupper32 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the weird, Orwellian ways that the government talks about it, has turned me against the booster. You desperately need to take a step back and look at yourself and how you evaluate things. You decided to go against the booster because of your feelings, not because of science. You want government decisions to be guided by science, and yet you are very clearly anti-science with your decision making. > To many of you h…

> because of your feelings, not because of science. For the unaware, there are multitudes of highly acclaimed scientists and academics around the world from top institutions including Nobel prize winners that are advising caution against the vaccine. You don't just get to choose which "science" you listen to. These voices are massively censored so the public doesn't really get to hear both sides of the argument. The…

You're going to get some number of people against anything. 96% of doctors were fully vaccinated by June [1], for example. Does the 4% holdout actually worry anyone? It shouldn't.

You also have to double check beyond headlines. For example, I saw people talking about how the FDA EUA panel wasn't a consensus for Pfizer 16+ back in the day. Turns out, most of the people who were hesitant just wanted to start with 18+, not 16+. That's a huge difference from what some of the headlines were saying.

[1] https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-sur...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#557

Post by psychedelican »

zeku wrote: post #506
zacharytelschow wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's apply that logic to everything, then, and see how it works out. You're fat or obese and have health outcomes stemming from those choices? Enjoy your heart attack, fatty. You get injured doing something "non-essential?" Your mountain bike accident sounds like your problem. You're a smoker and get lung cancer? Sorry, no treatment is available for you. You don't get to dictate the health choices of others. And if…

Those aren't equivalent. Preventing obesity is *very* hard, or we wouldn't have obese people. Who actually WANTS to be obese? Preventing your ICU trip due to covid is as easy as driving to the pharmacy once or twice and spending 20minutes there. It's easier than grocery shopping.

But you're forgetting that currently these vaccines are not really doing a great job at decreasing hospitalizations in at-risk populations. Look at Israel. Thanks.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#558

Post by pgalvin »

jboggan wrote: post #526
DangerousPie wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context. It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent…

"It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe." Yes, except there is an established process for quantifying "clear for a while now" and it involves sufficient time and control groups. That process isn't being followed and it is concerning for a number of reasons, including the effect of political pressure on expedited drug approvals in the future now that this precedent is being set. Th…

This really, really is not true.

Many drug and vaccine approvals in the past have been done before the trial has run its full course. Many drug and vaccine trials have given the placebo group the real drug once safety and efficacy is clear - before the end of the trial.

This is not new, and frankly I’m a little surprised to see such conspiracy theories on HN.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#559

Post by acdha »

jesusohchrist wrote: post #480
cbg0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely than not, they'll just move the goalposts farther and find a different excuse for not getting it.

Just like fauci 2 Shots of vaccine to end covid -> Most Americans will have to take booster shots -> Booster shots may not be one time thing

What changed? The Delta variant arose and started spreading more effectively.

This is why getting spread under control is so important: each time the virus replicates there’s a chance of a new advantageous mutation making the problem harder. Wearing masks and vaccination are how we break that cycle.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#560

Post by abnry »

ipaddr wrote: post #371
rotexo wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That question might best be prefaced with “here’s what would change my mind… what about yours?” That formulation might come across as more curious and open rather than patronizing. Though I honestly don’t at all understand the mindset of people who don’t want the vaccine, so I have to admit this approach could quite easily still be offensive.

People are mostly worried about long term side effects. Including those who have the vaccine. Understanding that base fear will help bridge the divide between groups.

I think the main non-conspiracy reasons fall into these categories:

- Fear, hesitancy about potential long term risks.

- Resistance to government mandating a vaccine (freedom, low trust in government, other options not being considered)

- Resistance to the cultural paradigm of "un-vaccinated = bad/deplorable person"

- Belief that the risk of COVID is already low (at least for them)

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