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Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

mattstoller.substack.com

551–560 of 595 posts

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#551
post #508

So why do we a accept that VC's invest in software tech but we don't expect them to do the same in biotech (obviously some do I am generalizing) but instead expect Americans (mostly, I live in Canada though) to subsidize Big Pharma through taxes and, in many many many cases outrageous costs for decades old drugs?

Apparently, because Americans tolerate it. A bunch of factors lead to higher drug prices here and an almost complete inability to agree on a way to fix it.

A lot of it comes down to tribalism: "I'd rather pay higher drug prices than lower drug prices your way."

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You notice you are off by a factor 10 and don't pause for a moment but instead immediately go "ok, so"?

If it costs a billion dollars to develop a drug and pharma spends 6.5 billion on ads, that would mean an implausibly small number of drugs being developed, no? I don't see any reason to believe that pharma spends more on ads than R&D. Do you?

> that would mean

No.

> Do you?

The fact that you just reposted your above comment without any change despite knowing it was wrong and despite being called out on that. That seems like a strong point in favor of the opposite of whatever your position is.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#553
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

""Big Pharma" in the eyes of the public..." What the public does not see is how the patent system is gamed by generic sellers. How this works is not something that can be easily explained in a single paragraph. The problem is specifically mentioned in the Fact Sheet/Order. This is a legitimate antitrust issue but it is exceedingly difficult to succeed in the courts.

> How this works is not something that can be easily explained in a single paragraph. Where can we find the explanation?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26817958/

Another line of research would be PBMs (Pharmacy Benefit Managers). These are another primary means through which drug prices are manipulated by Big Pharma, away from public scrutiny. Some Big Pharma companies have actually formed their own PBMs to provide better secrecy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacy_benefit_management

Understanding what's really going on, i.e., exactly how it works, would require reading and understanding a significant amount of case law or working for Big Pharma. Note that understanding how it all works will not necessarily lead to change, unfortunately. PhRMA does a reliable job of making sure things stay the same year after year. These problems with gaming Hatch-Waxman have been around since the 90's. IMO, Big Pharma's lobbyists are far more skilled than Big Tech's lobbysists. Time will tell.

There is no single factor that is wholly responsible for higher drug prices. It is many factors. This is probably why it is such a difficult problem to solve.

Here is one example of one Hatch-Waxman "loophole." This is the one with antitrust issues that I had in mind when making that comment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_payment_patent_settlem...

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#554
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

""Big Pharma" in the eyes of the public..." What the public does not see is how the patent system is gamed by generic sellers. How this works is not something that can be easily explained in a single paragraph. The problem is specifically mentioned in the Fact Sheet/Order. This is a legitimate antitrust issue but it is exceedingly difficult to succeed in the courts.

> How this works is not something that can be easily explained in a single paragraph. Where can we find the explanation?

[deleted]

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#555
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like how we require people to check in with their accountant every 6 months to make sure their finances are doing well, check in with a teacher and take a test every year to make sure our education is still up to date, and we have the cops investigate us biannually to catch any signs of legal trouble early. We don't and we shouldn't require everyone to be nannied just because some people might benefit - they can…

Please, sign a notarized document saying you, your family or the DA won't sue because you were (a) lost to follow-up, (b) developed a medical condition as you grew older, (c) got a side effect because of long term medical use. Then, don't waste ER time if you have a stroke or heart attack because government can't tell me not to eat trans fats. And, by the way, if you have an accountant, you should check in more than…

If we could sue hospitals into paying out because we developed medical conditions as we aged, there wouldn't be any hospitals.

You have to qualify your statement with "if you have an accountant" because I don't have to have an accountant, it is an optional service I can seek if I want. In my case, I do my own taxes, and if I don't get as big a tax return as I could've back, it hurts nobody but me.

The requirement for you to do regular tasks for the privilege of practicing your profession is forced upon you because the the consequences of any lapse in your knowledge are borne by others, not you. I too have professional requirements, but I can choose a different profession and be absolved of all of them.

A chronic condition is not a choice. Dealing with your pain is not a privilege, it is a right. The idea that people should be forced to forego their right based on the idea that some others will benefit (a dubious claim for which I can find no evidence supporting) is absurd.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You notice you are off by a factor 10 and don't pause for a moment but instead immediately go "ok, so"?

If it costs a billion dollars to develop a drug and pharma spends 6.5 billion on ads, that would mean an implausibly small number of drugs being developed, no? I don't see any reason to believe that pharma spends more on ads than R&D. Do you?

Just to chime in; the poster you're replying to is correct regarding your incorrectness related to the relative weighting of R&D vs. Marketing spend.

Pull a public filing for these companies and take a look at their balance sheets; it's pretty straight forward.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#557
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen this claim made a few times. If this is true then surely it would be in the US’s interest to stop doing it! Stop us freeloaders from mooching off your drug development! Personally I’m doubtful that this claim is broadly true though. I think it should at least be backed by some decent analysis.

The US does pay about twice as much per capita for healthcare, while getting rather mediocre results. No, it's not in the country's best interest as any normal person would understand it. But there's a large segment of the US population that has very strange priorities. They are willing to pay a bit extra to avoid the possibility of, say, poor people getting healthcare. (They also pay 5x as much for their military, c…

There is a reason Americans are willing to pay more for the system we have now, though it's not the one you mentioned. The U.S. health system is considered willing to go farther in treatment than socialized systems are. For example, say, giving 10 patients MRIs to detect one disease. If you're that 10th person, it worked out well for you, and if you're one of the other nine, you just had to pay more.

Anecdotally, a co-worker told me he had moved here from Canada so he could bring his father here to be treated for some form of cancer. He was not going to get that particular treatment in Canada, no matter what he was willing to pay. I am in no way saying that this treatment was necessary or helpful, though it might have been. But my friend perceived that he had more options for treatment here.

Second anecdote, a friend died of pancreatic cancer last year. Her doctor told here it was inoperable, and she had 8 months to live. She went to two other doctors and found one who was willing to put her through intensive chemo; she wanted to fight it. She still only lived 8 months.

In another country, she would not have that option, and maybe she shouldn't have had, because it was very expensive and it had less than zero benefit.

People can get more treatment options here, at a higher cost, for better or worse.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the plural of anecdote is data, when the ACA was first rolled out, someone close to me discovered they had colon cancer. They had been having symptoms for quite some time, but had been managing them with home treatment, the first day the had insurance they went to get it checked out. Lucky they did, as devastating as it was (and continues to be, turns out your chemo is brutal and having large sections of your colo…

Counterintuitive as it may be, the Oregon Experiment showed increased costs. It did show an improvement is psychological outcomes, I presume due to peace of mind, because their wasn’t a corresponding increase in psychiatric medication.

I imagine this test isn't sufficient because just like with me and this other commenter, many would be going to the doctor to catch up on care they've been missing. Over a longer time period and with having this from the start of your life, I'm sure the costs would end up lower m

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>the majority of the public want oversight of these sorts of professionals. The majority of the public wants whatever they are lobbied to believe they need. The majority also supports the War on Drugs and criminalizing the sex trade, and for the same reason: fear tactics used to convince them that the mere option of doing an ostensibly harmful activity, is to the detriment of themselves and society at large, even th…

"The majority of the public wants whatever they are lobbied to believe they need." Ok, can you show me the lobbying that swayed their opinion on this topic then? If they are just gullible like you claim, then do you think these incapable people will have the capacity to choose well after removing license requirements for providers? "Plenty of medical procedures could be done by nurses and other non-physician medical…

>>Ok, can you show me the lobbying that swayed their opinion on this topic then?

I only deduce it happens.

I mean the lobbying happens in ordinary conversations like these, where people with a vested interest in gatekeeping argue it's in the public interest. I'm deducing it happens based simply on the incentives that exist for concentrated interests, in the form of insiders, to engage in it.

It also manifests as major political representatives legitimizing said licensure, and rationalizing the principle behind it to the public, in exchange for support from insiders within the regulated industry.

>>If they are just gullible like you claim, then do you think these incapable people will have the capacity to choose well after removing license requirements for providers?

Yes, because people do far more research for personal consumer choices, where their level of knowledge has a substantial personal impact, than for political positions where their level of knowledge has a minimal impact, or minimal likelihood of impact, on their personal life.

>>That would be nice in many ways, but I can see a downside too. Once someone is found to be incompetent, fraudulent, and harmful, how would they be barred from the profession to prevent the issue from happening to others?

I don't see how the absence of licensure would prevert courts from issuing restrictions on individuals found guilty of criminal misconduct.

The government requiring a conviction in court before restricting someone's right to free association is how it should be. That is what the principles of a free society demand.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#560
post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a third issue: The high cost of medicines that are low cost to produce, and are sold at low cost elsewhere

I think it's fair to characerize this as a symptom of the emplyment/insurance/hospital loop outlined in issue #1 of the original comment. That relationship between those three parties is the root cause of the messed up incentive model responsible for the ridiculously high costs of all products/services in US healthcare; pharma included.

The true root cause of high pharmaceutical costs in the United States is our competition crushing patent system. If we eliminate patents, we open up the market completely to competition. More competition will bring extremely low prices. Innovation will not be harmed as most innovation is done in universities and is government funded, in the private innovation will happen anyways as the first mover advantage in these markets is huge.
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