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A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

kleinbottle.com

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Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#551

Post by pbhjpbhj »

reaperducer wrote: post #531
mint2 wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I’ll start as well. I used to consider Walmart worse, and never shopped there. But for several years I’ve intentionally been avoiding Amazon when at all practical. But I’m going to avoid them at all costs. Amazon seems both willfully and unintentionally incompetent. They have so many strikes against them. Their prime dark patterns are hostile enough, and I avoided it for years. But I needed a cheap plastic it…

They made whole foods a bad experience by treating non-prime members as second class customers. To be honest, there's not much difference between Prime and non-Prime at Whole Foods. The Prime specials are very few and far between, and usually not worth very much. There are more signs about discounts in the store than actual discounts in the store. I think the only thing I ever get a Prime discount on is my wife's fav…

Where did you buy it before, did they stop selling direct? Any idea why?

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#552

Post by heavyset_go »

iratewizard wrote: post #482
mrandish wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame that a small-time reseller like Cliff has to go to the trouble and expense to register a trademark to protect his listing (which I doubt Cliff will bother with). Until about 5-6 years ago the changes Amazon made almost universally made their service better and more pro-user convenience/efficiency. Since then it's really become a nightmare. I realize they are being abused by scammers who are scheming ever…

Amazon is filled to the brim with predominantly Chinese scammers that they have shown no interest in stopping. Scams I've seen: - 2 pack scammers that sell someone else's product as a bundle, but it costs more to buy the 2 pack than it does to buy the real item twice. - Listing swaps, where someone will take a commodity listing with lots of reviews and change the listing to sell overpriced broken garbage - Counterfei…

> These bad actors don't contribute to the Amazon market. There's little reason not to ban them for ToS violations.

These bad actors are optimizing for sales, and Amazon benefits from each sale on their marketplace. Their actions result in more money for the bad actors and for Amazon alike.

It's a similar situation to VC-funded social media platforms turning a blind eye to bots and automation early on because bot activity increases growth and engagement metrics, both of which in turn can increase the platform's valuation in future funding rounds or an IPO.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#553

Post by bigiain »

CliffStoll wrote: post #385
_joel wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely, I read it in a day it was so enthralling.

Took a year to write. Asynchronous I/O, I guess.

So long as more than 365 people spent a day or more reading it, you got your revenge on the universe… ;-)

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#554

Post by technothrasher »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #541
blairanderson wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Cliff, I'm an independent amazon consultant. Your Amazon problems would be solved with a regular USPTO trademark. They don't recognize common-law trademarks because they are heavily arguable in litigation. USPTO is a database of trademarks already scrutinized by trademark attorneys and government. It's not perfect, but it is a collection that Amazon recognizes. You can do this for $2000-ish and never think about i…

Do Amazon care about jurisdiction, UK registration is ~£200, perhaps any registered trademark will get you recognised by Amazon [in all jurisdictions]? If someone is squatting one's trademark you can still sue them with an unregistered mark, and perhaps crucially if they're using Amazon then Amazon should be up for contributory infringement. This is not legal advice and represents my personal views only.

I was thinking similarly, what about state trademarks? I've got a Massachusetts trademark because it was quick and easy, and cost only $50. My lawyer advised me that, while not as iron clad as a federal trademark, it would tend to discourage anybody else from filing federally on the mark because they'd do a search and mine would turn up and they'd rather pick a different mark than be limited in one state. I don't sell product on Amazon though, so I don't know if it would work in that instance.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#555

Post by CliffStoll »

maciekpaprocki wrote: post #247

Hi Cliff, First of all thank you for being you. I read about you week ago and then I went into a massive youtube binge of your videos. I had a bad day and needed a distraction and seriously your videos were uplifting, funny, educational and so binge worthy. Great stuff, highly recommended to anyone. Wish there would be more of them. From ecommerce perspective, don't care about amazon. I wouldn't say that for most bus…

My thanks to you Macie. I appreciate your smile and kindness - I hope you got more than your fill of my silly videos.

You're right, of course: As others point out, mine is a hobby-business, and Amazon isn't the best place for it. Still, it was fun having a (small) presence there, even if most of my customer interaction happened through my Kleinbottle website.

Having said this, I'll probably continue this zero-volume business out of my home; the cool thing is how many fascinating people I meet. Just a week ago, a mathematician stopped by and tried to teach me homotopy theory. Good stuff!

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#556

Post by afgrant »

kabdib wrote: post #507
EricE wrote: post #449

A perfect example of why I buy less and less from sites that support 3rd party sellers. The problem is even once reliable sites like newegg.com are now playing these games. If I wanted the Ebay/alibaba experience I can get that! Why large retailer sites dilute their brand and frustrate customers in the fruitless chase of "being like Amazon" in catering to 3rd party sellers amazes and annoys me. At least most other si…

NewEgg is just fine with scammers on its marketplace. Last year I bought a new mouse. NewEgg redirected my sale to a reseller, who sent me a busted, used mouse in a plastic baggie, with cigarette burns on the buttons. After raising a little hell, I got a refund. Basic on customer reviews, I'm not the only person this seller (betechparts, if you care) is scamming. Despite multiple emails to customer support and the Ne…

When you ordered, was it a "Sold by: Newegg" product? Regardless, they're still responsible to handle it.

I maintain that Newegg has diluted its brand (and presumably grossed higher) by adding so many third-party sellers. At least, for me, they've held up their product support thus far.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#557

Post by heavyset_go »

duxup wrote: post #314
CliffStoll wrote: post #116

Guess I'd better say a few things. First, I deeply appreciate that so many on Hacker News have come out for this. Enough to awaken me from a sound sleep on a Tuesday evening! I don't really care that much about selling Klein bottles over Amazon - it's mainly to reach parents over the holidays. But I do wish that Amazon would do something about this kind of thing. Finally, I"m very low on stocks of glass Klein bottles…

There was a story about a guy who had a self published book. He was the only person printing / selling his book. Until someone showed up on amazon and sold it too, they just copied it and printed it themselves. The copied book is identical, cover and all, images in the Amazon listing too ... Amazon chose to do nothing.

> The copied book is identical, cover and all, images in the Amazon listing too ... Amazon chose to do nothing.

Amazon will still get paid whether they sell the real book or a knock off, either way. It's not like a small time author has the resources to actually do something about it in court.

I refuse to give money to a business that behaves the way Amazon does.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#559

Post by CliffStoll »

helixfelix wrote: post #221

What is ironic is that there is an annual Award given to an AWS employee called the Cliff Stoll Award: For those individuals who see something suspicious, not working as expected, show ownership and drive it to resolution. As Cliff did to find a KGB spy, and documented in "The Cuckoo's Egg". I wonder what would happen if someone at Amazon pulled on this thread and not only solved Cliff's problem but also the root cau…

If there really is a Cliff Stoll award, I'd be happy to contribute a Klein bottle for its continuation. (seriously!)

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#560

Post by bigiain »

saxonww wrote: post #452
paulpauper wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making the step from a hobby to a business means having to make the necessary investments, some of which may be costly and a pain in the ass, to protect one's intellectual property.

I think it's ironic that you're saying he has to pay to run his business safely, when Amazon's set things up this way specifically because they don't want to pay to run their business safely. It's a little outrageous that a 3rd party can come take over your storefront without any avenue to challenge.

It’s not “your storefront”. Your listing is only there at Amazon’s discretion and subject to whatever arbitrary and capricious and erratically enforced rules they choose to make up. That’s the deal you accept if you choose to make Amazon (or AliExpress or Facebook or whoever) a critical part of your business.
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