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What it's like to be cancelled

noahbradley.com

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Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#551

Post by chakhs »

jacobr1 wrote: post #457
surround wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single internet apology I've seen has been met with "this is such a bad apology / isn't a real apology." I'd love to see an example of an internet apology where people don't criticize the apology itself (if one exists).

Even presuming that the act was worthy of censure, and an apology sincere, forgiveness can't really be given until some sort of restorative action is taken. Words, even sincere words, can't provide recompense. Of course, most these internet based outrages and boilerplate apologies are ridiculous anyway. Sincerity is nowhere to be found.

If you hurt person A, why do you have to apologize to the public anyways? You should apologize to that person, why do others expect you to apologize to them?

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#552

Post by leafmeal »

ImprobableTruth wrote: post #490
dfxm12 wrote: post #154

My life ended on June 21, 2020 Who wrote this post then? I know you go on much later to say that not everyone gets a chance to start over again but I have , so do you have some perspective. At a high level, you got fired from your job, lost some friends, got depressed, but found light at the end of the tunnel and are working again, a year later (a year where a lot of people found themselves out of work for many reaso…

Rarely do I read remarks so condescending, callous and cruel. Even instrumentalizing the tragic deaths of Shepard and Floyd to dismiss the hurt of another person on its own is absolutely sickening. I'd like to think that this cruelty is backed up by a good motivation. Maybe the author hurt you or someone you know. Maybe you sympathize greatly with the victims and you're motivated by righteous indignation. But no matt…

I appreciate you taking the time to write something so thoughtful and sincere, and I really hope OP takes it to heart.

Love and empathy is the only way to healing in my book.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#553

Post by foldr »

koheripbal wrote: post #443
defaultname wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is either a weird rhetorical device you're using to discount opposing viewpoints (they're all just trying to "escape the reality of their own failed lives"..."they are worthless"), or some sort of Jungian projection. Sexual harassment is an enormous problem in every industry. People who just want to do good work and be a part and contribute become targets for predators who objectify, diminish and harass. Cultura…

> This is either a weird rhetorical device you're using to discount opposing viewpoints (they're all just trying to "escape the reality of their own failed lives"..."they are worthless"), or some sort of Jungian projection. This is the long winded version of "no you". > Sexual harassment is an enormous problem in every industry. People who just want to do good work and be a part and contribute become targets for pred…

>You think OP is guilty here, with no basis.

The basis is his public admission that he was guilty, no?

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#554

Post by foldr »

rkk3 wrote: post #400
tptacek wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said: you can see screenshots of threads where he was accused both of "groping" and of taking advantaged of intoxicated women at events, and he responded with a link to the apology. Follow the first footnote from the Wikipedia article, and then click the screenshot on the first message in the Twitter thread. I have no way of judging the veracity of either side of this argument, but it sure looks like the allegat…

So the tweet paraphrased above, here is the link... Which again he didn't directly reply to and didn't say anything about groping anyone in his apology... Is it really that hard to link? https://twitter.com/BettyDesuJiang/status/127450059571858227...

I think you don't see Noah's reply because he deleted that tweet? At least, I can't find the "a long overdue acknowledgement" tweet on twitter any more. So what tptacek says seems accurate to me.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#555

Post by foldr »

koheripbal wrote: post #498
defaultname wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going to use that terminology, note that the common phrase "innocent until proven guilty" applies to the court , and only to the court. That it must treat you as innocent until a guilty judgment is rendered. It isn't some universal right or something, and has zero bearing on this conversation. I'm not saying he's guilty or innocent. But if someone says "he did nothing illegal because he hasn't been charged"…

> "innocent until proven guilty" applies to the court No. The legal system codifies societal values we have. One of those values is that accusations without evidence, like rumors and gossip, are poor reflections of reality, and should never be used to judge someone's character. Witch hunts were real, remember?

There's plenty of evidence in this case, just possibly not enough to pass the threshold for a successful criminal prosecution. People get fired all the time for doing things that aren't illegal, and where there is strong but non-conclusive evidence of wrongdoing. For example, if I consistently take time off for being "sick", I'll eventually be fired, even though the company obviously won't be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I wasn't sick on the relevant days.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#556

Post by abenga »

shadowgovt wrote: post #104
legitster wrote: post #65

Honestly, the biggest mistake people make is issuing public apologies. So far, we have very few examples of them actually working. On the contrary, any amount of admission seems to show weakness. The "controversy" around Lin-Manuel Miranda seems to have come nearly entirely from his apology to a very small group of disappointed fans. There are even more examples of very publicly terrible people who have skirted worse…

I have yet to see a well-defined playbook for mitigating the Twitter Eye Of Sauron turning on a person that has a better success record than chance. Different things have worked for different individuals (including issuing a public apology, see https://www.vulture.com/2020/12/influencer-apologies-2020-sh... for a collection of them and the result). It may be the case that cancellations are too circumstance-specific t…

It may be before the online mobs grew large enough, but Tim Hardaway dealt with his homophobic comments well enough to convince everyone that he had a change of heart, and was not just trying to manage the fallout (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/02/16/ten...).

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#557

Post by 4h53n »

username90 wrote: post #458
hindsightbias wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An internet mob is the perfect model for what a Direct Democracy would look like.

Switzerland is the perfect model for what a direct democracy actually looks like and it is nothing like a twitter mob.

Where "voters narrowly rejected a plan to levy taxes on airline tickets and car fuel to tackle climate change".

https://www.economist.com/the-world-this-week/2021/06/19/pol...

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#558

Post by thu2111 »

dcow wrote: post #274
PaulKeeble wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that happens if you voice your opinion in the opposite direction of an internet mob is you get piled on too. Anyone who has been on the internet must have experienced this more than once. Introducing some facts or measure (which is hard with twitters very tiny character limit that squashes nuance and debate) in a response is just the same thing. The internet mob is a mob and acts like a mob and its best to get ou…

You also have to blame companies/hr for being so reactive and possibly our governments for not taking action to insulate society against the impacts of internet mobs on peoples’ pursuit of happiness. The fact that 100 people on Twitter can get somebody fired just by calling them a rapist with absolutely no proof is a social/societal failure. I highly suspect ending this person’s contracts cost the companies more mone…

To do that you'd need to roll back corporate feminism. The reason this guy got cancelled is the feminist culture of "always believe the victim" which is basically the same as "always believe an accusation". Anyone who points out that women can and do lie about being raped i.e. an accusation is not automatically true, is immediately trashed by feminists as a woman hater, and they make it quite clear that it's a "pick us or them" type situation, which in turn makes it difficult to treat the topic rationally. This poor guys situation is the inevitable result.

The art world is especially exposed to this because it's full of leftists, so you're really asking for a roll back of identity politics as a whole. Good luck with that. If you figure it out let us know.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#559

Post by thu2111 »

4h53n wrote: post #557
username90 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is the perfect model for what a direct democracy actually looks like and it is nothing like a twitter mob.

Where "voters narrowly rejected a plan to levy taxes on airline tickets and car fuel to tackle climate change". https://www.economist.com/the-world-this-week/2021/06/19/pol...

What's your point? The internet mob views the rightness of such things as being beyond question, an actual direct democracy doesn't. Seems like good support for the original point.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#560

Post by koheripbal »

tptacek wrote: post #518
koheripbal wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being a jerk in social situations is by itself absolutely grounds for being fired. That runs contrary to most companies I've worked at.

I'm not sure I can think of a team I've worked on with more than 10 people on it where someone didn't get let go for noncriminal bad behavior that wasn't simply work incompetence. Obviously, it happens all the time . That there are extreme assholes that manage to retain (or even improve) their positions isn't evidence against my argument, because it's not my claim that there's a consistent standard; in fact, the lack…

Were these professional teams, or high school/college/food service jobs?
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