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2022 Ford F-150 Lightning

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Re: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Story from when we moved to Montana 20 years ago: We buy a freezer at Costco. Checking out, we ask for details on delivery. Costco employee says "Oh, we don't deliver". We had been used to Costco in CA which at the time would deliver large items. I ask "Well, how do people get big things like freezers home". Costco person says "Easy, just put it in your pickup, we'll help you load". "Hmm...we don't own a pickup". Cos…

... why not just rent one for the day ?

If OP is out in montana, most fun things are going to need a pickup.

Offroading, boating, horseback riding, dealing with snow, hauling firewood. Sure, you can get a 4x4 SUV like a 4runner but just get a dang truck. lol

Re: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. As a cyclist and pedestrian (who does own a normally-sized car), I was getting pretty frustrated by the lack of safety discussed in the comments. https://twitter.com/lloydalter/status/1395326192908218371?s=...

Sounds like a common sense reasoning about this. Are there stats to back it up? Do trucks pose a significantly greater risk to cyclists and pedestrians? I'm actually a truck owning cyclist myself.

You'd need a study that actually looked at more than just "what happens if you hit a pedestrian at 25 mph" - because it's quite possible that a truck does more damage when it hits, but hits less often because it's higher up and has better visibility.

Re: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s like the aesthetics of a pickup truck is offensive to some people. I got a rental car recently and they gave me a bright red pickup because it was the fastest option. I was surprised by the good vibes I got from all the other pickup drivers, lol. It's like I got inducted into a secret club for a day with a lot of waves and thumbs up. A woman went up to my group in a parking lot and said something like "Hell yea…

I had the same experience when I bought mine. My self concept changed. Suddenly I was someone who could move anything anywhere. I felt like an animal that had crossed over into a new phylum. Now I’m someone important to all my friends, and I have new friends. I’m in the club, wherever I go. Nobody tailgates me. Life is good.

Hahaha they still do it's just harder to see.

Re: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning

#554

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> significant amount of pickup truck buyers do it for the machismo Those are weasel words unless you can back them up with data. Ford sells over a million pickups a year, and they're just a third of that market. There's no way to get an audience this large by going for machismo, pickups sell because they have broad appeal.

It is a bit insulting but I suspect many people have enough experience with this that its a bit of a gut reaction. I know a lot of big ego people, they all drive trucks. I've been flipped off by drivers of all vehicles, but only run off the road by trucks, usually for very trivial things. because you know, getting into someone elses lane is effectively a challenge to their manhood, and they better make a point about…

> At any rate, what exactly would objective supporting data look like here?

I don't know, which is why I wouldn't stereotype such a large group of the population. To a reasonable approximation, everyone in America is a truck customer. It's way too broad to have a common defining characteristic.

I agree that there is a subgroup (think of them perhaps as the 'brodozer' crowd, I guess) that seem to be who you're thinking of. They mostly don't drive F150s, they're more likely to go for a diesel HD pickup. And even then they are just a niche of that market. I know lots of superduty owners that want nothing to do with those folks.

Re: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning

#555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right the stereotyping here is ridiculous and full of out of control virtue signaling. If you live in an apartment complex it's ridiculous to have a truck. But Even if you own just a reasonable suburban house with a small amount of land you need to do a lot of dirty truck type jobs every year. I only have half an acre of land, but due to tons of trees I have yard work every year that causes me to have to do many many…

The concept of “yard waste” that has to be exported in a vehicle should make you see a flaw in the system. Can you change your system to use trimmings on site or nearby?

There is not flaw in the system. Trees and large shrubs come down. Municipal compost sites have the space and equipment compost large amount of material that home owners can't deal with. The arrogance in this thread is unbelievable.

Re: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning

#556
1. I'm really glad they didn't go with the "futuristic" look of the bmw or Volt, where extra "techie" lines create a muddled design. Just make EVs look like aerodynamic ICE vehicles, this will increase adoption rates.

2. How much power does the generator/house back-up provide? I can see it being enough for a couple tools on a jobsite, but how long will it run a refrigerator, furnace, lights, etc.?

3. In this page, Ford claims to have the largest charging network in the USA. How is that possible, I thought Tesla had a huge lead on supercharging stations and destination chargers?

4. Price: At 40k base, you'll be seeing average costs of 50k+, even after the 7.5k tax incentive. I'd take the larger battery for sure, it would greatly increase the utility of the truck for my cases. 50k is what MANY truck buyers are already spending, I don't see that being an obstacle at all.

5. Gripe: Most people who claim to need a truck don't really need to OWN a truck; they should just rent. I live in a rural area and 95% of the trucks I see have 1 passenger and on average almost no cargo in the bed. We are polluting our planet for the occasional privilege of using our OWN truck...people simply buy vehicles for the outlying use case, not the modal case, and it's incredibly inefficient.

6. Overall: These EVs are a step in the right direction. It's still energy inefficient overall, and renting an ICE truck once a month would still be better than buying a new massive EV truck, but this is a step in the right direction. It'll nudge the "I want my own truck" people in the right direction towards efficiency.

Re: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning

#557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Ridgeline truck has a trunk in the bed. It’s amazing.

And think how much better it will be when it isn't covered by the stuff loaded in the bed.

You can buy giant drawers to put in the bed of a pickup, and still have access to what's in them even when loaded.

Example: https://truckvault.com/vehicles/pickup but there are others.

Re: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning

#558

Tesla's checkout process has spoiled me. It's landing page -> select a model -> select options and appearance -> enter payment info for a 100$ deposit. No signups, no friction, just car creation and transparent info and pricing. Step one on Ford's site is to select a dealer. Already I'm thinking about how much I hate my local dealer and the whole dealership system in general. Step two is a login screen with create an…

> transparent info and pricing

TSLA literally lies about the cost of the car on their website though.

"* Costs above include potential incentives and gas savings of $4,300."

Gas savings... What? This isn't some special tax credit you get, they lie about their pricing by including savings over time of ownership...

Re: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning

#559
post #233

There’s a lot of stereotyping of truck owners going on in this thread which is kind of funny given how pro-EV HN normally is. It’s like the aesthetics of a pickup truck is offensive to some people. Kind of bizarre and not something I’m used to seeing but I guess I live in Ohio so that probably has something to do with it. A lot of people just want to move stuff, they don’t want to like…burn your house down while wear…

The level of "you don't need that!" judgement is weird. I guess it's just a matter of degree though. Here in the southeast US if somebody drives a pickup instead of a sedan or minivan or whatever, it doesn't register as unusual or excessive. I don't think twice about it, it's just another kind of vehicle. But then again, I do notice (and sometimes make fun) if they've got a lift kit on it, tow mirrors when I've never…

> I do notice (and sometimes make fun) if [...]

I think this is the key point in the whole thread. I have no idea how many people who live on my street have pickups -- I've never noticed.

The only pickups I notice are the ones which are "coal rolling", have multiple flagpoles flying political slogans in the bed, or are lifted so far I have clear sightlines beneath them.

I have never seen a "coal rolling" Honda Accord, in contrast.

Re: 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning

#560
I think it's interesting to look at this through the lens of Christensen's disruptive innovation idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator%27s_Dilemma

The move by Ford offers strong evidence that electric vehicles at this point have become a sustaining, not disruptive innovation. Incumbents like Ford can now compete using existing business models and possibly manufacturing practices/equipment.

EV companies like Tesla are now positioned very poorly. They've burned capital chasing the top end of the market during the disruptive phase. Rather than servicing unserved low-end markets that companies like Ford couldn't touch for business reasons, Tesla went after the very top end of the market. Piles of evidence say that this approach will fail, not necessarily for technical reasons but for business reasons.

Successful marketplace disruptors attack the market from the bottom by offering objectively inferior technologies with steeply improving performance. That tech trajectory eventually allows the disruptor to gobble the market from the bottom up, with incumbents only too happy to leave low-end, low-margin customers behind. Think microcomputers vs. minicomputers.

Rather than running this playbook, Tesla chose the alternative: attack the very top end of the market. It never went through the phase where its products were mistaken for toys.

Now that EV production costs and technologies allow easier transitions, Tesla's business model is upside-down. If Tesla couldn't consistently turn profits during the phase it held the advantage, it is going to become almost impossible now that the playing field has leveled and the incumbents can just run the playbook.

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