Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

551–560 of 576 posts

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#551

Post by jgwil2 »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #439
hervature wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting. The connection to French is not immediately obvious as both "purchase" and "buy" would translate to "achat". However, "por chase" in French is "for the chase/hunt" which begins to resemble some definition of "purchase".

In which French did you find "por chase”? (this is not aggressive, I am french and this does not mean anything but it may be a dialect or some as ancient French?)

The etymology given by Wiktionary[0] is:

> From Middle English purchasen, from Anglo-Norman purchacer (“seek to obtain”) from pur- (from Latin pro-) + chac(i)er (“to chase, pursue”). Compare Old French porchacier (“to follow, to chase”), which has given French pourchasser (“to chase without relent”).

[0]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/purchase

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#552

Post by Clewza313 »

anoncake wrote: post #541
Clewza313 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English is unusual for being polycentric. For the vast majority of the world's languages, there's exactly one prestige dialect (Parisian French, Mandarin Chinese, Tokyo Japanese, etc) and a bunch of "inferior" dialects, and the first scenario (highly educated professor goes to a different country and is tripped up by using the "wrong" word) would not be possible. As it happens, though, Arabic is also a notably polyce…

French is monocentric? I don't think the Quebecois agree.

I don't think even the Quebecois think Quebec French is a prestige dialect.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#553

Post by Kihashi »

jjav wrote: post #536
pmoriarty wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A native English speaker would never have said that... unless they had received a really expensive education." There's the opposite problem, too, where people with poor educations will try to use fancy words to impress people (but often wind up just sounding pretentious). One of my pet peeves is hearing people using the word "utilize". Just say "use"! It sounds far less pretentious and means the exact same thing. I…

> try to use fancy words As a non-native speaker of English, one that I have never grasped is the overuse of the word "vehicle" to mean "car". It's extremely common, but not sure why. It's just a car, why call it a "vehicle"? I understand it in the very generalized context of, say, the DMV. It's the dept. of motor vehicles because they handle cars but also trucks, vans, commercial haulers, even boats. But not sure wh…

I'd use "vehicle" to be more general than "car". If I just bought one, I'd know whether I bought car, truck, SUV(ehicle), etc. Although, in some cases, you might say "car" generically if the distinction doesn't matter. Also, "vehicle" sounds a bit more formal, so if I were giving, say, a deposition, I might say that. I can't say that I think people around here overuse the term.

(Midwest USA)

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#554

Post by dormento »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #474
tcgv wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. I'm a portuguese language native, and I can relate, but not because we talk like this in portuguese: > "move the burgers to the periphery of the barbecue" That would be really formal over here too, the kind of wording that I'd expect in a grilling manual explaining how to use it, but not at a barbecue. I can relate because sometimes I find myself speaking like that when talking to english counterp…

My sister married a Brazilian guy, and one of the biggest things she noticed about his English was that he would agree with negative sentences ("I don't like sushi") by saying "Me too", which is impossible. (You have to agree with a negative sentence by saying "Me neither".)

Its more like:

- "Eu não gosto de bolo" ("I don't like cake")

- "Eu também [não gosto de bolo]" ("Me too [I don't like cake]")

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#555

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

StavrosK wrote: post #503
thaumasiotes wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We also use "περιφέρεια" for the circumference of a circle Blasphemy! (In English, at least, circles have a "circumference" while every other shape has a "perimeter". Ovals seem to use either word.) I never actually thought about combining " peri meter" with "circum fer ence" to get "periphery".

We don't really use "periphery" for the circumference in Greek, we use "perimeter". Periphery refers to something outside the object you're describing, whereas perimeter is right at the edge of the object, but usually belonging to it.

... and I've forgotten how to speak Greek :(

I've lived in the UK for the last 15 years. I even think in English, these days.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#556

Post by BrandoElFollito »

jgwil2 wrote: post #551
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which French did you find "por chase”? (this is not aggressive, I am french and this does not mean anything but it may be a dialect or some as ancient French?)

The etymology given by Wiktionary[0] is: > From Middle English purchasen, from Anglo-Norman purchacer (“seek to obtain”) from pur- (from Latin pro-) + chac(i)er (“to chase, pursue”). Compare Old French porchacier (“to follow, to chase”), which has given French pourchasser (“to chase without relent”). [0]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/purchase

OK thanks, so this is XIV-XV century French (http://micmap.org/dicfro/search/dictionnaire-godefroy/porcha...)

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#557

Post by quickthrowman »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #495
quickthrowman wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norman/Saxon meat/animal word pairs are interesting; the saxons were the hunters and farmers, and the normans ate the meat. This led to a bunch of word pairs: Beef/cow Poultry/chicken Pork/pig Veal/calf Mutton/sheep There are other areas of English vocabulary with dual Saxon/Norman words as well. Bill Bryson has a great book that explores how English became what it is now: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_T…

Please don’t recommend Bill Bryson’s The Mother Tongue . Bryson has no actual background in linguistics and there is a factual error or urban myth on nearly every page of that book. There are loads of pop-sci “history of English” books written by people who were actually competent in the subject.

Thanks for the heads up, I looked into criticism of this book and I won’t recommend it in the future.

If you happen to see this reply, would ‘Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue: The Untold History of English’ by McWhorter be a better choice for a pop-sci history of English? r/Linguistics seems to be fine with him.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#558

Post by elric »

domano wrote: post #546
elric wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I frequently ask speakers of my native Flemish where they're from because they have interesting regional accents or speak baffling dialects. And that's a language spoken by barely 6 million people. Feeling an "alien in your own country" because you don't speak a language in the exact same way as the people around you ... seems very counterproductive.

These people are natives with dialects. As an immigrant you face prejudices sometimes and being in a negative interaction makes you more wary of the other parties intent.

Yeah, I get that. But at some point you have to let go of that fear & wariness. Arseholes are pretty universal, and whether they're having a go at you because of your accent, your immigration status, or the colour of your hair doesn't matter all that much. Arseholes gonna arsehole, and they'll find a stick to beat you with if they so desire. The vast majority of people, thankfully, aren't arseholes, and their intentions tend to be on the "good" part of the spectrum.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#559

Post by thiagocsf »

dormento wrote: post #554
thaumasiotes wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sister married a Brazilian guy, and one of the biggest things she noticed about his English was that he would agree with negative sentences ("I don't like sushi") by saying "Me too", which is impossible. (You have to agree with a negative sentence by saying "Me neither".)

Its more like: - "Eu não gosto de bolo" ("I don't like cake") - "Eu também [não gosto de bolo]" ("Me too [I don't like cake]")

I’d have chosen “I also” to explain, even then it’s not what he uses but it makes a bit more sense in English:

- I also [don’t like cake]

After 15+ years speaking and writing English daily, I still trip over the use of “in, on, at”.

And every now and then I have my first time pronouncing a word that I’ve known for years, from reading book in my teens. When I first tried to pronounce “phlegm” I tried to sound every letter on it.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#560

Post by thaumasiotes »

thiagocsf wrote: post #559
dormento wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its more like: - "Eu não gosto de bolo" ("I don't like cake") - "Eu também [não gosto de bolo]" ("Me too [I don't like cake]")

I’d have chosen “I also” to explain, even then it’s not what he uses but it makes a bit more sense in English: - I also [don’t like cake] After 15+ years speaking and writing English daily, I still trip over the use of “in, on, at”. And every now and then I have my first time pronouncing a word that I’ve known for years, from reading book in my teens. When I first tried to pronounce “phlegm” I tried to sound every le…

> When I first tried to pronounce “phlegm” I tried to sound every letter on it.

The G is pronounced in the derived word "phlegmatic". It can't be pronounced in "phlegm"; English phonology doesn't allow for "gm" as a sound cluster.

(Whereas in "phlegmatic", you can put a syllable break between the G and the M, so it's at least possible to produce the sounds.)

Post reply on HN