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Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

economist.com

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Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#551

Post by pseudalopex »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #537
pseudalopex wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America isn't an extreme outlier. And most of the variation around the world can be explained by different diagnostic criteria.[1] Look for numbers around the world to jump as countries adopt ICD-11. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1994964/

84% of total world wide ADHD meds are eaten in the USA. There is a difference between identifying symptoms and thinking stimulants are the answer or just not paying any attention. Just like in Europe the medical consensus is that people have to learn to live with pain rather eating oxy's. It doesnt meant the doctors pain didn't exist in their patients. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6261411/

Could you point out where the article claims that? It's padded extensively with selective and often irrelevant factoids and speculation about ADHD diagnosis, recreational drug use, etc.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#552

Post by mjbeswick »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #549
Dma54rhs wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

84% of total world wide ADHD meds are eaten in the USA. There is a difference between identifying symptoms and thinking stimulants are the answer or just not paying any attention. Just like in Europe the medical consensus is that people have to learn to live with pain rather eating oxy's. It doesnt meant the doctors pain didn't exist in their patients. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6261411/

I know you don't intend it this way, but it does come across as cruel when confronted with realities. > 84% of total world wide ADHD meds are eaten in the USA. That's of course because US is ahead of the curve in medicine. > Just like in Europe the medical consensus is that people have to learn to live with pain rather eating oxy's. This isn't a medical consensus. We just don't push opioids for everything so early. W…

Stimulants also work very well on people without ADHD, so why not give them to everyone!?

It seems crazy that we've made it this far as a species without medication; so why should it be required now? Maybe the issue isn't the children, but the environment they are in?

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#553

Post by odiroot »

protomyth wrote: post #378
odiroot wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, most teachers are women. I haven't checked, but I'd assume most school administrators are women. That was definitely the case for me until university.

Education and childcare administrators are 66.5% women in the USA according to https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm

I'm not American (like many people here). In my country 82% of teachers are women according to the ministry of education.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#554

Post by cutemonster »

twgp123 wrote: post #180

Throwaway because this is one of the data points you are required to ignore in polite society. Girls receive better grades until you blind the teachers. Teachers are biased in favor of girls, maybe because their behavior is better. The effect of biased grading is enormous and a huge disadvantage to our boys. > Gender-biased grading accounts for 21 percent of boys falling behind girls in math during middle school. [1]…

> this is one of the data points you are required to ignore in polite society.

Actually it's not; it's fine to bring it up. It is PC and OK

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#555

Post by cutemonster »

audunw wrote: post #412
throwaway02345 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you don't characterize women as an oppressed people in every possible instance then you're sexist. The truth is that women benefit a great deal from the general goodwill that society grants them. From legal sentencing, to taking your kids to the park, to mentorship opportunities, to simply crossing the road. The list goes on, but western society generally goes out of its way to accommodate the needs of wom…

> Because if you don't characterize women as an oppressed people in every possible instance then you're sexist. Do people really say this? I've seen mens rights issues being raised carefully in the last few years, and I've never seen any backlash when done right. Like when you see articles written about women abusing men, or mens rights regarding children. Even women write about these issues. Feels like it's being ac…

> Do people really say this?

I didn't see any such replies here -- maybe at some other places some people do (Reddit / subreddits?)

(I didn't downvote)

> don't let arguments against those people deter you from talking about reasonable mens rights issues.

Good point

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#556

Post by Dma54rhs »

pseudalopex wrote: post #551
Dma54rhs wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

84% of total world wide ADHD meds are eaten in the USA. There is a difference between identifying symptoms and thinking stimulants are the answer or just not paying any attention. Just like in Europe the medical consensus is that people have to learn to live with pain rather eating oxy's. It doesnt meant the doctors pain didn't exist in their patients. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6261411/

Could you point out where the article claims that? It's padded extensively with selective and often irrelevant factoids and speculation about ADHD diagnosis, recreational drug use, etc.

> the US ( 92% of the world spending on these agents [35].

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#557

Post by skinkestek »

hc-taway wrote: post #471
TeMPOraL wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the medication. If they're on stims in particular, and the meds actually improve their behavior, then the cause most likely isn't insufficient PE time.

The effect of amphetamines on kids with ADHD is to improve school performance. The effect of amphetamines on kids without ADHD is to improve school performance. The effect of amphetamines on kids without ADHD but who've been diagnosed with ADHD because they're not getting enough exercise is... to improve school performance.

The effect of stimulants on the brain is to stimulate it.

For those who need it it makes mind-numbingly boring stuff such as homework (as opposed to reading history books or creating elaborate formulas etc etc) less painful.

I don't know about you but I personally have seen some examples that have gotten significantly improved lives because of it.

If you don't know this stuff first hand, please refrain from making broad statements about it.

BTW, I'll give you this: one of the most interesting explanations I saw was that ADHD is very overdiagnosed - and at the same time underdiagnosed.

Some people get ADHD meds that shouldn't have, others struggle for years because some people have irrational fear against stimulats.

Can we try to avoid moving that needle and instead try to lower the errors on both sides?

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#558

Post by Dma54rhs »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #549
Dma54rhs wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

84% of total world wide ADHD meds are eaten in the USA. There is a difference between identifying symptoms and thinking stimulants are the answer or just not paying any attention. Just like in Europe the medical consensus is that people have to learn to live with pain rather eating oxy's. It doesnt meant the doctors pain didn't exist in their patients. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6261411/

I know you don't intend it this way, but it does come across as cruel when confronted with realities. > 84% of total world wide ADHD meds are eaten in the USA. That's of course because US is ahead of the curve in medicine. > Just like in Europe the medical consensus is that people have to learn to live with pain rather eating oxy's. This isn't a medical consensus. We just don't push opioids for everything so early. W…

Says in the article 7 times more likely to get adhd meds in the US than UK. America is wealthy but these numbers are way off compared to similarly developed nation.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#559

Post by skinkestek »

mjbeswick wrote: post #552
TeMPOraL wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you don't intend it this way, but it does come across as cruel when confronted with realities. > 84% of total world wide ADHD meds are eaten in the USA. That's of course because US is ahead of the curve in medicine. > Just like in Europe the medical consensus is that people have to learn to live with pain rather eating oxy's. This isn't a medical consensus. We just don't push opioids for everything so early. W…

Stimulants also work very well on people without ADHD, so why not give them to everyone!? It seems crazy that we've made it this far as a species without medication; so why should it be required now? Maybe the issue isn't the children, but the environment they are in?

Because 50 years ago:

- teachers had a lot more options when it came to disciplining kids

- many left school for work at age 15 - 16

Do you want the good old times back?

(Another thing is many countries have changed the curriculum to be even more heavy on theory than it used to be. That I would like to change, both for the kids and for future employers: broad practical experience probably increases someones chances in engineering and probably other disciplines as well.)

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#560

Post by skinkestek »

whimsicalism wrote: post #317
standardUser wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women avoid saying such self-deprecating things because they already have a tougher time than men being listened to, taken seriously, promoted, etc. Not that there aren't exceptions, but most women are acutely aware of how they act and are perceived at work because they start off at a disadvantage. I imagine few men ever think "will my gender get in the way of my ideas, or my work relationships or my career trajector…

Don't know why the pretty obvious explanation for why this sort of thing is common is downvoted. Even if you're some weirdo who thinks there is no gender discrimination in the workplace, you can't deny that many women at least perceive there to be gender discrimination, and one of the tips passed around is to stop self-deprecating yourself in front of your colleagues.

> Even if you're some weirdo who thinks there is no gender discrimination in the workplace, you can't deny that many women at least perceive there to be gender discrimination,

Sample size of one, but if my company has the option to hire a male or a female engineer which are known to have the exact same skillset and experience I expect them to choose the female one 10/10 times:

- hiring the man gets the job done

- hiring the woman gets the job done equally well and gets you a pat on the back (both immediately and also whenever the statistics are brought up)

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