Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior • Hacker News Board

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#551

Post by giantg2 » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:05 PM UTC

Thorrez wrote: post #507

giantg2 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem is that it's your word against their's. So if nothing happened that would be caught on video, say just verbal bullying or it was in a blind spot, then nothing will be done because there's no proof. Now the scenarios I've been talking about are where the bullying has become physical. Most schools that have a zero tolerance policy will punish both people who were involved in the fight/pushing/etc regar…

>For one, you have to escape that bully and hope you're faster than them (before you get trapped/ tackled and it turns physical) or you both end up being punished. You have this same problem with fighting back. You have to hope you're a better fighter, if you're not you will be pummeled. The benefit of running is that very quickly you will reach other people, so you don't have to run very far. With fighting it could…

Running is a good option, but I'm saying it shouldn't be the only option.

It doesn't need to be only 2 kids. The zero tolerance policy has made it so that bystanders won't get involved because they will get into trouble too if they are physically breaking up a fight.

A diary won't really mean much. It's still your words, but now they're just written down.

Recording could be good. It depends on the state laws as well as school policy. You might not have to inform them in some all party states, because many have exceptions for recording if you believe a crime of violence is likely to occur. The bigger problem is if that exception doesn't exist and there are other people around, you need to inform them or get their consent. If they aren't around, the bully knows you're recording and may take the device from you to destroy the recording.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#552

Post by giantg2 » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:11 PM UTC

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #543

giantg2 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were clearly against the people defending themselves in your original reply (saying it won't fix anything) and want school policies to fix things. The policies you are listing are already in use! Why hasn't the issue been solved?

> You were clearly against the people defending themselves in your original reply No, don't twist my words: I'm against the culture of pushing the burden of defending oneself onto the victim. Because it's literally victim blaming. I'm also against punishing the victim in case they defend themselves, because it's also victim blaming. This is nothing new. Most legal systems treat adults crime victims with a similar pri…

"No, don't twist my words: I'm against the culture of pushing the burden of defending oneself onto the victim. Because it's literally victim blaming."

Then why did you respond the way you did? I never blamed victims. My post was that zero tolerance policies prevent a victim from defending themself. You said that victims cannot stop the bullying and that the school needs policies to do so, but without the police.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#553

Post by speedgoose » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:32 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #547

speedgoose wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should get rid of the gun or put it in a safe when you are not using it for sport. It's too dangerous to have it just in the corner. It's more likely that you or a family member will use it against yourself or someone else you love.

Do you have the stats on that? It's really only valid if the person in question or his family have abuse or suicide issues.

Yes it's mostly deaths related to suicide. With a few domestic homicides or children playing with weapons. But suicide thoughts can happen to everyone, yourself in the future perhaps, or someone you care about and where you didn't see or ignored the signs.

About USA: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/upshot/gun-deaths-are-mos...

In France where weapons are relatively rare except for hunting : https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2017/10/05/quels-est-le-...

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#554

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 1:53 PM UTC

tomnipotent wrote: post #509

chiefalchemist wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neuro-plasticity means what it says: the brain is moldable. It's not static. It's not set in stone. Prior to neuro-plasticity the brain was perceived as being set in stone, so to speak. The brain is a result of how you "exercise" it, or not. It's the result of what you feed it, or not. It's not static. Neuro-plasticity enables stroke victims to recover. And the depth and breadth of that recovery is a function of how…

I think we're agreed on the definition of neuroplasticity, just not that it defines you somehow. It's like saying "you are what you eat", which is mostly nonsensical. Exercising your brain causes structural changes, whereby neuronal circuity is "rewired" to create more optimal paths. Stroke victim recovery is functional, in which parts of the brain take over responsibilities for what was damaged (but it's not "transf…

Nitpicking, but we (our bodies) are what we eat, just not the brain itself

Eat crap. Become crap. Brain may still work ...but on a deformed body

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#555

Post by tripu » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 2:40 PM UTC

afandian wrote: post #117

I'm one of those people who is entirely bemused by violent videogames and films (I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be bemused by my pastimes too). I'm not trying to argue to stop anyone doing it, but I would really like to understand it better. Many video games are essentially simulators of things that we're prevented from doing in reality, because of the laws of nature or society. Whether that's dropping…

You explained very well a puzzle that has been in my mind for quite a while, too. Thank you for putting that into words!

I am amazed that there's so much hypocrisy around different categories of violence in fiction. It's even worse than other manifestations of hypocrisy, because this one seems completely invisible to people — I don't recall having seen this discussed anywhere until I read your comment today.

Case in point: when https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Serbian_Film came out, there was so much talk about it being immoral and/or illegal, and so many (eventually successful) calls to boycott, censor and ban. I have not watched the film, and I do not think I'll ever watch it, because judging by what I read about it, it seems utterly disgusting and horrifying. Disgusting to the level of scenes depicting the raping of a newborn, and the most imaginative mix of necrophilia, torture, rape, and gore. I think I could not stand it, and if I forced myself to watch it, I suspect I'd have nightmares (literally). So what follows is by no means a defence of this particular work, nor an endorsement of gloating over the most extreme and shocking forms of violence an artist/performer can conceive.

At the same time, there are so many depictions of violence in mainstream film, games, TV and literature. By far, most of that violence is done to male characters (and incidentally, also by male characters). That violence is usually not sexual in nature.

As Vladimir Nabokov put it, art has to be transgressive and shocking.

One more idea to consider: violence (as most things) comes in gradations. Murder > torture > punch > pinch. Rape > harassment. Actual violence > threat of violence. Violence to several people > violence to one. Sadistic violence > plain violence > violence as self-defence > physically restraining an aggressor. Violence committed taking advantage of physical superiority > violence among equals. Etc. There is no gradation, however, contingent on the sex of the victim nor on the sex of the perpetrator: violence towards men ≡ violence towards women.

Why then, it is so controversial to depict rape or sexual abuse, but so commonplace to rejoice in depictions of murder, torture and physical aggression?

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#556

Post by tekknik » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 3:17 PM UTC

Leherenn wrote: post #534

yibg wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about this too. There seems to be some inconsistencies with how society thinks about violence vs sex. Rape and murder are two of the most serious crimes, and both are punished severely; with murder more severely in most cases. But when movies or games depicts extreme violence, including murder, it’s seems as fairly normal and accepted. But when rape for example is depicted, it causes a lot of controversy. Ul…

I'd say a part is that the violence is turned toward competition, not emotion. Who's going to win the fight? The emotion part is toned down. Rape on the other hand is mostly emotion.

Not to mention what competition is there to have over raping? Shooting games are purely competitive, a competitive raping game just sounds dumb.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#557

Post by tekknik » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 3:19 PM UTC

nonbirithm wrote: post #476

dx87 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference between acceptance of violent and sexual depictions in media is based on how likely it is to affect people's lives. Almost nobody has a natural tendency to act on violent thoughts, so playing a violent video game is unlikely to cause issues in real life. Most people will have sexual encounters at some point in their life though, so getting an unrealistic expectation of them can cause serious is…

I have heard that Japan is more tolerant of sexual depictions, while less tolerant of extreme violence (*guro"), and the United States is the opposite. A lot of overseas releases of anime/games are censored for mild nudity that passed Japan's rating association. And some popular districts advertise erotic games on massive billboards under large crowds of pedestrians. On the other hand, a mission in a Call of Duty tit…

Which CoD doesn’t end the mission if you shoot civilians? I’ve played US versions of every CoD and remember it being this way.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#558

Post by giantg2 » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 3:19 PM UTC

speedgoose wrote: post #553

giantg2 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have the stats on that? It's really only valid if the person in question or his family have abuse or suicide issues.

Yes it's mostly deaths related to suicide. With a few domestic homicides or children playing with weapons. But suicide thoughts can happen to everyone, yourself in the future perhaps, or someone you care about and where you didn't see or ignored the signs. About USA: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/upshot/gun-deaths-are-mos... In France where weapons are relatively rare except for hunting : https://www.liberation.…

I think we should let the individual decide based on their own situation. Taking away the choice to own a gun for self defense, or suggesting in a blanket statement that people should sell their gun or make it inaccessible (useless for self defense), is not something I support. Maybe your perspective is different, and that's fine.

That French page is not very useful - total numbers of firearm deaths is not as important as looking at suicide rates. Suicide rates between the US and France are 13.7 and 12.1 respectively (WHO 2016 data). That doesn't seem like a very big difference, especially if you consider the large difference in guns per 100 people (US 120, France 19, suggesting weak correlation). You also see developed countries in that data which have low gun ownership and higher suicide rates (Sweden, Japan, etc). This seems to point to factors other than gun ownership driving suicide rates.

The New York article is looking at short term reduction studies. We see that suicides drop temporarily after a prevalent method of suicide has been removed. If we follow the rate over time, it will increase as people learn of new ways to kill themselves. In the US, we have recently seen an increase in teens gassing themselves with household chemicals. It just takes time for societal knowledge to perform that shift, so you end up playing a shell game.

The best way to reduce suicides is to focusing on getting at-risk individuals treatment. The starting point is to destigmatize the subject and educate people on the options. Addressing the root problems are more effective than addressing the symptoms, which just ends up going down a never-ending rabbit hole of banning the next method to replace the last. There are a number of mental health workers who agree.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-new-brain/201607...

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#559

Post by andrewla » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #334

andrewla wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think that confirmation bias is very strong here. My rule for analyzing social science articles is pretty simple: If the study contradicts your intuition or understanding of human behavior, it is likely that it does not support the conclusion because of extensive methodological errors or statistical skullduggery. If, on the other hand, the study confirms your intuition or understanding of human behavior, it is…

My rule for analyzing social science is: “it's bullshit till proven otherwise.”. The simple fact is that I cannot ever think of any solid methodology to investigate a “link” between these two things and that the man who devises it would deliver a rather groundbreaking idea. How would a study such as this even work?; it's all Quatsch .

The only difference between your view and mine is this:

> till proven otherwise

It's still bullshit even if proven otherwise. If I roll my magic dice and determine that it's going to rain tomorrow, and it ends up raining, this in no way validates my methodology.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#560

Post by b0rsuk » Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 3:58 PM UTC

afandian wrote: post #117

I'm one of those people who is entirely bemused by violent videogames and films (I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be bemused by my pastimes too). I'm not trying to argue to stop anyone doing it, but I would really like to understand it better. Many video games are essentially simulators of things that we're prevented from doing in reality, because of the laws of nature or society. Whether that's dropping…

Because violence against men is acceptable, violence against women is a big no-no. Have you seen a movie where a woman is kicked in crotch? Countless movies teach us that men kicked in crotch are funny.

Compare reactions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QFvEzIzQwg