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Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

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Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#551

Post by ascat »

lvbu wrote: post #547
yumraj wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not) Of course Reservation IS the problem if you're unfortunate to be an upper caste. The problem is that a caste-based reservation did NOT eliminate caste-based bias, it amplified it. More and more castes, outside the original designation, demanded it in exchange for votes, and more and more upper caste Indians felt cheated as they lost limited opportunities that should…

> In IIT, while there was cutthroat competition for general category seats, SC/ST (reserved category) seats went unfilled since in the IITs there was (not sure if it still is there) a min standard was required. Even with this low bar SC&ST are unable to get in. It shows how disadvantaged they are as a population.

How the empty seats of SC/ST in the IITS reflect that they are disadvantaged? They have much less cut off, many SC/ST give the exam, their fees is much much less than the general category, they get scholarships. How are they disadvantaged ?

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#552

Post by jlawson »

tassl wrote: post #461
tw600040 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends. So who should win the 100 m olympics? someone who is fastest or someone who was discriminated against? Which team should win the football match? the team that scores the most points or should the background of the players be a criteria?

That's a false analogy. Genetics can beat training but discrimination cannot be overcome without intervention. I'm a strong believer in equality of opportunities, but I feel that's constantly misunderstood. If your family can pay you a tutor, you're given more opportunities. If you don't have to work after school, you're given more opportunities. If your family is educated and can give you guidance, you're given more…

>discrimination cannot be overcome without intervention

There have been many people in history who have overcome discrimination without intervention, so this can't be true. Just because it's harder doesn't mean it's impossible.

Did you mean to say something more specific?

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#553

Post by eigenvector »

manifestdissent wrote: post #482
notacoward wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you say rings very true to me. Most Indians are very reluctant to talk about this. Of several that became friends when I worked with a team in BLR, only one became close enough that we could discuss it. He himself was from one of the very highest sub-castes (which he taught me was trivially knowable from his surname) but very enlightened. I was shocked to discover that all but two or three out of about fif…

True story. I met this Indian woman while working out of the local hipster cafe. We had mutual friends. And ended up going out for lunch. On the way back, she started asking questions about my background. They grew intensely personal. Until she was interrogating me on the sidewalk. Unsatisfied with my responses, she just gave up and cut to the chase, "What's your mother's caste?" Thanks to fairly unique circumstances…

I'm an Indian diaspora person with no cultural connection to India.

When I travel, I'm often accosted by Indian (nationality) people who immediately begin 20 questions about my background, religion, caste, language, where my grandparents are from, et cetera.

One occurrence that sticks in my mind is being in a building lobby in Almaty, Kazakhstan and having two Indians see me from across the street, immediately cross the road and excitedly ask "Are you Indian?"

When I replied "No" and kept walking, they followed me for a block trying to decipher how an Indian-appearing person might not be Indian.

Mostly I find this amusing and chalk it up to cultural differences. But I can't help but conclude that Indians are almost obsessed with "placing" each Indian-appearing person they mert based on their ancestry, and find it hard to move past this.

If I'm feeling annoyed, I'll say, "you wouldn't ask a white person any of this, so why are you asking me?"

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#554

Post by thewhitetulip »

ascat wrote: post #551
lvbu wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In IIT, while there was cutthroat competition for general category seats, SC/ST (reserved category) seats went unfilled since in the IITs there was (not sure if it still is there) a min standard was required. Even with this low bar SC&ST are unable to get in. It shows how disadvantaged they are as a population.

How the empty seats of SC/ST in the IITS reflect that they are disadvantaged? They have much less cut off, many SC/ST give the exam, their fees is much much less than the general category, they get scholarships. How are they disadvantaged ?

My brother living in his hamlet has no electricity after 8pm, has 0 access to coaching and has little to no access to books or anything related.

This is circa 2000s though.

The village has affluent upper caste people while the lower caste people still do menial jobs

Reservations are meant for them. But the city folk who have the most knowledge and access to money abuse this system while real poor lower class people aren't able to access.

I knew of an economically backward class person who wore woodlnd shoes. My parents couldn't afford those shoes, his did yet he had woodland shoes.

Moral of the stort: city folk abuse reservation system caste or economic terms because it takes a 5k bribe to a local govt to fake your income certificate, lot of people I know have done it.

My dad worked in a govt firm, his colleague who earned the same money was lower class so his daughter who got marks exactly as same as mine got a stellar college and ANY branch she wanted, but I wasn't a girl & backward on paper so I had to settle for what I got

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#555

Post by RichardCA »

muzaffarpur wrote: post #488
lowend wrote: post #214

ITT: (Possibly) "Upper caste" Indians claiming: 1. This is due to a few bad apples 2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not) 3. I don't do it therefore it doesn't exist I can tell you by experience the amount of concious and unconcious bias regarding caste amongst Indians both in India and abroad is ridiculous! I'm light skinned so people assume I'm "upper caste" and speak with me as such. My last name doesn't…

https://admission.aglasem.com/jee-main-cut-offs/ Category JEE Main 2019 Cut Off Common Rank List 89.7548849 Gen EWS 78.2174869 OBC NCL 74.3166557 SC 54.0128155 ST 44.3345172 PWD 0.11371730 Common Rank List = Upper caste SC/ST = lower caste 90 vs 44/54.

So I do a quick lookup on what "OBC NCL" means and it comes back as "Other Backwards Class - Non Creamy Layer".

My initial reaction was that this was some sort of joke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creamy_layer

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/OBC-creamy-layer

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#556

Post by dmode »

pratikss wrote: post #392
dqpb wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they know what each persons caste is?

Surname or family name is a common indicator but may not be 100% accurate

It is very regional. I am from Eastern India and I have now what is considered low caste in say Punjab or Gujarat

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#557

Post by ardy42 »

tw600040 wrote: post #366
lowend wrote: post #214

ITT: (Possibly) "Upper caste" Indians claiming: 1. This is due to a few bad apples 2. Reservation is the real problem (no it's not) 3. I don't do it therefore it doesn't exist I can tell you by experience the amount of concious and unconcious bias regarding caste amongst Indians both in India and abroad is ridiculous! I'm light skinned so people assume I'm "upper caste" and speak with me as such. My last name doesn't…

//How the fuck is a person's caste relevant? This is normal for you? I agree. It shouldn't be. But then it shouldn't be relevant during admissions too yeh?

>> How the fuck is a person's caste relevant? This is normal for you?

> I agree. It shouldn't be. But then it shouldn't be relevant during admissions too yeh?

I interpreted the situation the GP described as a policy meant to enable bigoted discrimination. The bad part is the bigotry, not the discrimination.

Discrimination meant to relieve the effects of past bigotry on disadvantaged people is not a bad kind of discrimination. Meritocracy isn't a fair competition if some families already got a head start before it was decided the rules should be made fair and were allowed to keep it.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#558

Post by ma2rten »

sharadov wrote: post #543
ma2rten wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been studding Buddhist scriptures and I don't think this true. The following quote is from 2,500 years ago: [The] brahmins say: ‘Only brahmins are the highest caste; other castes are inferior. Only brahmins are the light caste; other castes are dark. Only brahmins are purified, not others. Only brahmins are Brahmā’s rightful sons, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, created by Brahmā, heirs of Brahmā. https://s…

"There is no evidence in the Rigveda for an elaborate, much-subdivided and overarching caste system". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India

I'm certainly not an expert in Indian history, but it seems that there was a caste system 500 BC with four castes which people were born into.

Is there evidence that people were able to move between castes before that time?

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#559

Post by nnain »

A huge problem with the way reservation (affirmative action) is given to Scheduled Castes candidates, is that it's enjoyed by very few families. I know people who have 3 generations of govt officers (foreign services and all) due to reservation. While a majority for whom reservation was put in place never receive it.

Re: Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians

#560

Post by crossroadsguy »

fakedang wrote: post #445
screye wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not from an upper caste either, but my experience doesn't match with yours at all. My peer group is less culturally Indian than others, but I wonder if experiences such as yours are more pronounced in certain regions or groups, more than others. I have never once been asked my caste, and I have never once seen my friends be asked their castes. But, I realize that being middle class in an Indian metro city alread…

I know in my brother's university (IT-BHU), they put caste names next to students' names. And this was a top-tier government university at that! In my University (IIT-D), I believe certain scholarship announcements revealed details about students' categories, ie whether they were SC/ST/OBC/General. Especially if it were a means scholarship. Worse case, professors in India have zero personality training, and will casu…

In BHU (and by extension at IT-BHU as well and have heard it has continued at IIT BHU as well) and many other universities in the North it's called phylumbaazi.

Phylum + Baazi.

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