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Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

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Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#551

Post by ashtonkem »

jariel wrote: post #547
ashtonkem wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is literally a different argument though. Now you're arguing about the difference between civil disobedience (which necessarily involves breaking norms or laws) and simple protest. This is a fair distinction, but genuinely a tedious one. Yes, standing around in the street is illegal, that's the point. We're not going to work out anything new here that hasn't been discussed over the past century. What I'm reactin…

??? So you fully support anti-abortion protestors blocking the entrance to abortion clinics? That's 'civil disobedience' and 'breaking the law' for the 'content of speech' (in their view) of 'saving lives'? Seems pretty legit? Saving lives? What about White Supremacists burning down 'desegregated schools' in protest of 'desegregation'? Or some 'burning crosses' on the streets in front of the NAACP? I mean, hey, it's…

This response is so completely unrelated to what I actually said that it’s genuinely hard to respond to. If you want to continue to discuss this matter, respond to what I said, rather than making up what I said and then arguing against it.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#552

Post by joe_the_user »

throwaway316943 wrote: post #502
joe_the_user wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap land and big house is a huge draw for sprawl. The problem is this is a fundamentally unsustainable proposition. The US is hitting those problems now and it's not pretty. It's not just gridlock but problem that once things stabilize, maintaining sprawl costs more than maintaining a compact city[1]. The roads and the schools in the suburbs are often good only when they're new - once they age, the problem become v…

It seems like there would be solutions to most of those problems. Roads are long due for a replacement but something more efficient and cost effective. Utilities are already moving towards decentralization with electricity leading the way but sanitation is on the horizon (see Bill Gates efforts). Depending on the outcome of COVID schools are going to be radically transformed. I think there’s enough energy pushing awa…

Roads are long due for a replacement but something more efficient and cost effective.

What could that possibly be? I don't know of anything even on the horizon. Rails and steel wheels are more energy efficient but far more costly to build and maintain. Other nations use rail well by ... not having sprawl. Suburban sprawl essentially rests on the private automobile. As the gp essentially said, the draw of sprawl is a big house and a car, which can be nice 'till your whole planet is on fire and you're choking in rubble (I live in California, can you tell - But Texas will notce climate change too, if they haven't). A road is a just a flat piece of ground, it's pretty hard to find something simpler. Freeways are cheaper to build than railways. But the cost of rebuilding gets huge.

So basically, there are not solutions to these problems. We've basically hit Decline of the Roman Empire levels here. That empire took hundred of years to fall. I'm hoping things last past my lifetime.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#553

Post by kaesar14 »

romanoderoma wrote: post #488
refurb wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OECDs countries use the same stats everywhere No they don't. They collect the same stats, but they aren't necessarily comparable.

even if it was true, it's still the 34th position over 36 countries The richest country in the World is 34th I think you have a problem there, no matter how much you try to find excuses for it > Metodology Membership in the OECD was used as a proxy for similar nations to the U.S. The group was narrowed to OECD members with 50 years of high-quality data, minus the U.S. It includes: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada,…

Most Americans cannot deal with knowing our government and society is a trainwreck that exists to print cash

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#554

Post by potatoz2 »

austincheney wrote: post #496
piva00 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So protests are ok while they don't inconvenience you? I don't understand what is your point here, protests are supposed to be disruptive, disparaging the audience is not by design, if you feel that way then you don't really believe in the value of the protest, no?

Its like yelling at a customer and slashing their tires only to be confused why that customer doesn't wish to continue being your customer. Then blaming the customer for their lack of commitment and being somehow dumbfounded by their change of opinion.

That's an extremely poor comparison: you are not a customer, you are a co-equal citizen.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#555

Post by Gwypaas »

CydeWeys wrote: post #533
Gwypaas wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has some merit. Sweden built an entire system based on road bases to deter any invasion attempts from the Soviets, including aircraft able to operate out of them. Still happen upon them to this day, just notice the road get straighter and a tiny bit wider. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bas_90

I'm not saying it doesn't have merit or isn't true of other countries, just pointing out that it's not true of the United States. The US is a lot different from Sweden in two salient points here -- we're much bigger, and we're protected by entire oceans from potential enemies on all sides.

Completely agree with you. Just pointing out that the idea that I guess many technically minded people come across actually exists, although in a completely different environment.

In contrast to oceans there's 600 km by air from St. Petersburg to Stockholm which leaves minutes to respond.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#556

Post by cyberdrunk »

donjoe wrote: post #532
cyberdrunk wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not a problem of houses built that way since the were built pre-car times to allow max light into apartments Not the case in most of Europe IMO. The apartment buildings were built along very narrow streets to either fit inside perimeter of city walls or (later) because real estate was expensive. Due to narrowness of roads, these apartments are not very well lit and are depressing (you can't see the sky thro…

Social aspects in the sense of that we nowadays use them for cars only. Back in the days people traded on streets, had cafes and social interactions. Kids could play football and learn how to cycle. That's all used up by cars with all the externalities that comes with it such as dirt, noise, wasted space, deaths by accidents and air pollution. Not to forget: streets were used that way until ~80 years ago. We just can…

> Social aspects in the sense of that we nowadays use them for cars only. Back in the days people traded on streets, had cafes and social interactions. Kids could play football and learn how to cycle.

I still see some of that in my dense city with car traffic. Obviously, this now happens on the sidewalk and not on the street itself. The major difference is kids not playing on the more major streets.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#557

Post by throwaway316943 »

donjoe wrote: post #513
throwaway316943 wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument still doesn’t make a clear case for removing cars. All those problems could also be solved by improving cars and infrastructure which has the added benefit of not completely demolishing and rebuilding around a system where you have to schlep your groceries up a hill in the rain on an old bicycle.

Alright, there are some options: a) keep everything as is. Leave up to 80% of public space to cars (as in L.A. for example), destroy all social interactions which could otherwise happen in those places, increase commute time due to cities designed around long distances and destroy our environment. b) buy a new bicycle and a good rain coat, use our feet, expand public transport, improve our wellbeing by doing some exe…

B only applies to relatively wealthy, childless people living close to where they work.

A is a straw man. There’s no innovation there. We need to redesign roads so that they are invisible and uncongestible. We either have to do personal air travel, which we don’t have the power density for yet or underground which is looking more promising. All people moving cars need to be electric and self driving. A car should be like a universal elevator, just get in and push a button. That’s the best option, 0 time dedicated to piloting your body through space and you’re able to live anywhere and work anywhere.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#558

Post by throwaway316943 »

joe_the_user wrote: post #552
throwaway316943 wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like there would be solutions to most of those problems. Roads are long due for a replacement but something more efficient and cost effective. Utilities are already moving towards decentralization with electricity leading the way but sanitation is on the horizon (see Bill Gates efforts). Depending on the outcome of COVID schools are going to be radically transformed. I think there’s enough energy pushing awa…

Roads are long due for a replacement but something more efficient and cost effective. What could that possibly be? I don't know of anything even on the horizon. Rails and steel wheels are more energy efficient but far more costly to build and maintain. Other nations use rail well by ... not having sprawl. Suburban sprawl essentially rests on the private automobile. As the gp essentially said, the draw of sprawl is a…

Nah, you just lack imagination.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#559

Post by jandrese »

jschwartzi wrote: post #409
jandrese wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also people wanted to start building equity in their home and you largely can't do that in the city because all available properties are rentals.

The notion of equity as an investment or savings is a pretty modern invention alongside the 30 year mortgage.

What? Passing down property has been the primary form of inter-generational wealth transfer since antiquity.

But the bigger issue is that you can't live inside of a 401k. Since housing is a requirement you might as well build wealth while you live in it. Assuming no massive disparity in monthly payments it doesn't make much sense to rent.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#560

Post by occamrazor »

mcguire wrote: post #266
occamrazor wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a reasonable price one can have _either_ a single-family house, _or_ an apartment close to the city centre in most European towns. Having both usually is possible for an exorbitant price.

"Reasonable" by San Francisco standards, or normal human beings'?

Depends on the city. With the exception of Paris, London, Geneva I’d say normal standards.
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