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Richard M. Stallman resigns

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Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#551

Post by cujo »

So the next time someone does something bad, and a group of people rally to support them despite it being obviously bad, we should all look back to this thread.

RMS is a figure in the hacker/tech community so the hacker/tech community has done most of the excusing for his behavior.

It's sad. There's room for argument in how much backlash he should receive, but if you're arguing that what said is fine, I would argue that you may be fooling yourself.

Consider some public figure you dislike (politician, celebrity, etc). Now pretend that person said these things. Would you be so forgiving? Maybe you would. But if you find the answer to be no, then you're just protecting your own. Quit that.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#552

Post by scoopertrooper »

kstenerud wrote: post #509

It's unfortunate that scarlet letter offences are still alive and well in today's culture. Normally, when someone engages in behavior seen as offensive, the procedure is to pressure the person to apologize and mend his ways, and only get rid of him if he refuses to do so. But when a "scarlet letter" offence is involved, we jump straight to the punishment phase, removing the person outright with no judicial process. T…

The guy has a long history endorsing pedophillia. Is it so hard to not endorse pedophilla? Can't that just be the one thing everybody agrees on?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#553

Post by al_form2000 »

jeegsy wrote: post #499
naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive This is an excellent point. More and more, there is no middle ground in consequences. Nothing like a suspension? or leave of absence etc. I don't recall how things used to be but I really lament the lack of some sort of gradient scale for punishment.

Not only that, now we obviously have reliable sources to turn to to get the right opinion about stuff. O brave new world.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#554

Post by smackay »

kstenerud wrote: post #509

It's unfortunate that scarlet letter offences are still alive and well in today's culture. Normally, when someone engages in behavior seen as offensive, the procedure is to pressure the person to apologize and mend his ways, and only get rid of him if he refuses to do so. But when a "scarlet letter" offence is involved, we jump straight to the punishment phase, removing the person outright with no judicial process. T…

For a little cultural orientation, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_Letter

While redemption is one of the themes in the book sadly the internet has not quite developed that level of sophistication so we are stuck with denouncement/punishment.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#555

Post by thrownaway954 »

marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

"Maybe he needed a PR manager."

No... he needed a PR manager desperately and I'm very surprised that the FSF or MIT never even considered nor assigned one to him. I know he's a grown man and is responsible for what he says, but he is, was, whatever, a figure to the CS community and as such should have had his public comments vetted more.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#556

Post by DoreenMichele »

hn23 wrote: post #550

What did he do? Forgive me, I am not on Twitter et.al.

He said some socially unpalatable things. Some woman decided he should be "removed" because of it. Somehow, she got her way it seems.

Some sources with the backstory:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20991756

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#557

Post by Jedd »

kelnos wrote: post #478
nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

> We don't have to tolerate people who make women feel unsafe and unwelcome in our (or any) industry.

Promoting intolerance of people we disagree with, even if we vigorously disagree with them, is perhaps not the best response.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#558

Post by rumanator »

Cacti wrote: post #545
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

Do you really need a PR person to know that suggesting underage sex is OK is a risky topic of conversation? Like, come on. This isn’t a subtle mine field here, it’s not rocket science, and any adult, particularly someone as nominally smart as RMS, should be aware that suggesting 14 year old girls (particularly ones with a non-zero probability of being _trafficked_!!) engaging in sex with 60 year old men is a risky fr…

> Do you really need a PR person to know that suggesting underage sex is OK is a risky topic of conversation?

This comment is infuriatingly wrong.

Stallman did nothing of the sort. Stallman's "crime" was having the audacity of pointing out that the technical definition of the crime matching the accusations was statutory rape. That's it.

And now he's out of a job.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#559

Post by CathedralBorrow »

ukj wrote: post #377
journalctl wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t call “not actively espousing hateful or bigoted views” “self-censorship”. And if people are afraid to be hateful or creepy in public, I’d call that a win. You don’t get to proclaim the advantages of chattel slavery and be magically immune from everyone’s responses, and afterwards you can’t complain about self-censorship when you think twice about writing or saying something abhorrent.

I am afraid to be mis-interpreted as hateful or bigoted, and have to spend an inordinate amount of time/effort either choosing my words for my audience (which is really hard on the internet with such a broad audience) or correcting knee-jerk responses. The general over-reaction and constant jousting at windmills seems like a net loss to me. I am forced to exercise self-censorship.

What's the difference between exercising self-censorship and exercising judgment about what's appropriate to say in different situations? Because I think we all do that. Is that censorship?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#560

Post by Snd_ »

kelnos wrote: post #478
nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

Please provide evidence for this. I can't find anything describing the things you just typed.
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