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Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

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Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#551

I used to work at SpaceX on the team that did a piece of software called "WarpDrive". It was a massive monolithic ASP.NET application, with large swaths done with ASP.NET WebForms and a slow frontier of ASP.NET MVC gradually growing when I was working there. This application was responsible for practically everything that ran the factory: inventory, supply chain management, cost analysis, etc. Elon is a big Windows f…

> Thankfully the rockets fly with a heavily customized Linux install.

be more thankful if it was a genuine RTOS.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a very mean line-by-line response, but then I deleted it because it wasn't in keeping with HN guidelines. I apologize for having written it even though you'll never read it. Instead I'll just say that literally nothing you've mentioned has anything to do with whether you choose to use Linux. Yes your serial lines will be noisy. Yes you have to write software. Yes you need specific domain knowledge to do it well…

We need to both take a step back here and look at what we are saying. I am working on safety critical embedded software running mostly on small(ish) microcontrollers. It's the kind of environment where you're running either bare metal or an RTOS at best. There is simply no way to run anything else in this kind of very constrained hardware we have. So to me, "you don't need an RTOS" means that you're running on bare m…

A common distinction is between hard real-time and soft real-time tasks. Hard realtime means that missing a deadline results in a complete failure of the system. A soft real-time deadline means that missing a deadline will not result in system failure. Many soft real-time problems are incorrectly and unnecessarily promoted to being described as hard real-time. This can lead to completely different system architectures and much longer development time.

A stock modern Linux kernel on almost any hardware platform will give millisecond level responses. Much of the old PREEMPT_RT patch set features from the old 2.6.x days for real-time response has been merged to the mainline kernel.

There are lots of problems in software where you are controlling something physical with a control loop from 1 to a couple hundred Hz. Many people assume a hard real-time deadlines are necessary for this sort of system, but through good system design practices it often is not necessary. For example, if something physical must be sampled with very low jitter, let some hardware do the sampling and latch it in a register and then let the software come in with a variance of hundreds of microseconds to get its work done. Once again, write the output to a latched register and let hardware worry about taking the shadow register with very low jitter.

Having worked on bare metal microcontrollers, to various RTOSes, to higher-performance embedded CPUs with Linux, I prefer Linux on higher-performance hardware. Obviously, this isn't always possible, especially in power constrained situations. But with Linux, when you suddenly need to have support for an arbitrary network protocol, a database, a filesystem, graphical output, etc. you can have something together in no time. It is often a monumental effort for such a task when bare metal or with a RTOS. It is often difficult to get the supporting software and libraries to build on an RTOS in the first place.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks can reverse transactions if they want to. Tesla's cavalier attitude towards manufacturing has yielded a 14% first pass through rate on the Model 3 line (which is abysmal and may bankrupt the company along with declining M3 demand) vs. the industry standard of ~80% FPT rate. Source - https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-hit-model-3-target-by-... We're at the point in the Tesla story similar to that of 2008 wher…

That link is not a source for declining Model 3 demand. Source? My info shows that • In July, over 60,000 test drive requests in the US alone • 5000 Model 3 new net orders in one week in mid-July • Total deposits greater than total refunds in the twelve months ending April 2018 • Reports of Cancellations Outpacing Orders proved to be False wording Meaningless negative indicators include Goldman Sachs analyst David Ta…

A key supplier may have gone cash on delivery (no more net 120 terms) because M3 production this week has been at a stand still - https://twitter.com/skabooshka/status/1032409945407250434

And - https://twitter.com/Paul91701736/status/1033136573615730688

All the first hand Twitter intelligence is gathered by people who are short on TSLA. They see the ground level reality.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I do not have a car that was manufactured any time in the last 25 years. You can't trust software, and you definitely can't trust software developers.

This is probably going to sound outlandish to the majority, but I take it a step further and don't trust any car (+driver), period. Including drivers with massive amounts of experience or skill (even the best have failed spectacularly). So what do I do instead? I mostly cycle and ride where motorists don't drive and set the largest possible safety margins. I recognise this is not immediately practical for everyone bu…

We already live in that world (or country, at least). Your situation is an outlier, unfortunately. I'd personally rather have those cars be electric than burning fossil fuels, and if anyone can reinvent mass transit and make it available to people outside of major cities I'd happily take a train.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everything is revenue driven development

he said resume, i.e. working with tech you want to use at your next gig not the tech you need at this gig.

could have sworn i read that right ... ah well

still, revenue driven development actually makes sense as a thing too ...

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#556
post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the converse of the idiom "working for peanuts", which means to make a relatively small salary (see https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/work+for+peanuts )

Yes, but I don’t think that’s accurate in this case. Unless the “relatively” part is crafted to be an unreasonably narrow comparison group.

True. From blind, I think it matches average startup pay. However, that does not account for the fact that most people work very long hours. My brother started off with 80 hours weeks and then came down to 60 hour weeks when he got into his groove at tesla. So when you account for that, it is 33% below average startup pay (assuming other companies are doing 40) which itself is below big tech pay.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#557
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true, but only part of the story. If the only interaction between the automated systems and the braking system is to apply more braking power and the cars breaks can significantly overpower the engine then nothing the infotainment system can do would prevent the car from coming to a complete stop. Similarly, if the power steering was limited to applying say 5lb of force to the steering wheel (as felt by someon…

Check out the 20/20 report (or maybe it was 60 Minutes) where researchers who hacked into a car brought it to a complete stop on a busy highway (quite idiotically, IMO). Yes, other failures can cause this, but it can still be extremely dangerous.

I am not sure what you mean.

Referring to an event where nothing happened does not support a ‘very dangerous’ argument. If you simply mean it’s possible and after that it’s then possible that something bad would then happen then I agree.

I am simply saying it’s vastly lower risk than a car that’s impossible to steer or slow down without causing massive mechanical failure.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#558
post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but I don’t think that’s accurate in this case. Unless the “relatively” part is crafted to be an unreasonably narrow comparison group.

True. From blind, I think it matches average startup pay. However, that does not account for the fact that most people work very long hours. My brother started off with 80 hours weeks and then came down to 60 hour weeks when he got into his groove at tesla. So when you account for that, it is 33% below average startup pay (assuming other companies are doing 40) which itself is below big tech pay.

I don’t think other companies are doing 40. In fact, I don’t know anyone making six figures that does 40. (I’m not saying no such jobs exist, just that no one I know works in one of them.

If other high end software jobs are paying the same for 45-50 that Tesla is paying for 60, that’s on the low side hourly, but the low side of the high end.

75% (45/60) of 150k is still $112.5k plus presumably good benefits and some sort of equity component. That’s damn fine compensation for someone fresh out of undergrad even in 2018.

I wouldn’t want to work 60 indefinitely even for great pay, but that’s a separate issue.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#559
post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. From blind, I think it matches average startup pay. However, that does not account for the fact that most people work very long hours. My brother started off with 80 hours weeks and then came down to 60 hour weeks when he got into his groove at tesla. So when you account for that, it is 33% below average startup pay (assuming other companies are doing 40) which itself is below big tech pay.

I don’t think other companies are doing 40. In fact, I don’t know anyone making six figures that does 40. (I’m not saying no such jobs exist, just that no one I know works in one of them. If other high end software jobs are paying the same for 45-50 that Tesla is paying for 60, that’s on the low side hourly, but the low side of the high end. 75% (45/60) of 150k is still $112.5k plus presumably good benefits and some…

> I don’t think other companies are doing 40.

Maybe I am just lucky but I have worked for 2 of the major big tech companies and came out of college making 100k+ while primarily working 40 hour weeks at both.

> 75% (45/60) of 150k

Tesla new grad software engineer total comp is 150k? Damn, in that case they are pretty close with big tech (amazon is 145k and G/FB is 165k from what I have heard). I assumed it was lower since my brother was a PM with 6 YOE and got payed 130k a year.

> That’s damn fine compensation for someone fresh out of undergrad even in 2018.

Oh totally, my girlfriend is probably going to make like 60k out of grad school. However, while it is much better than anyone besides what my finance friends are making, that does not mean they are paying well relative to the tech industry.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#560
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ubuntu message of the day when you log in on a shell runs curl to feed in advertisements. Pretty big attack surface.

? I’ve never seen that. Since what version?

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/98ctgu/ubuntu_server...
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