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How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

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Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#551

Post by rimliu »

_o_ wrote: post #547
boredatwork wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure I delete files that I don't like, but I don't typically rewrite all my old backups to purge them from there too.

Once you have a way to backup data per user, just encrypt them with random key and once the account is deleted, delete the random key. We have done it this way, with having multiple live copies of backup key table on multiple locations and beeing backed up daily purging previous backup. The hard thing was to group the data in a way where we can encrypt them with users random key. I hope I was helpful :)

How do you manage/keep the keys?

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#552

Post by chii »

robin_reala wrote: post #84
aeorgnoieang wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How granular? Every field? Every character? Every bit?

You’re thinking about it in terms of pieces of information, but GDPR thinks about it more in terms of the uses of that information. You wouldn’t expect to ask a user “Can we store your email address?“. The granular action for storing the email address is “Can we email you from time to time product offers?”. Once the user consents then that email address (and potentially full name, etc etc) can only be used for that c…

The problem I have is that a site could tie acceptance with allowance.

e.g., I run a free, ads and promotion funded site, but I actually supplement revenue by selling the user's actions on the site to a third party. users can also have accumulated virtual currency as rewards, which can be used for premium sections of the site.

then along comes GDPR, and I tie acceptance of some virtual currency rewards with acceptance of the GDPR consent, with the threat of site access being cut off if they don't consent. is that still legal?

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#553

Post by wastedhours »

hanrelan wrote: post #457
wastedhours wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also, there's also the slightly grey-area requirement that (if you're using it as your legal basis) consent should not be required in order to utilise your product, merely to utilise the feature set that requires the data. If you need everything, then you'll need to use "fulfilment of a contract" as the basis, and in that case, you probably need to make your ToS pretty tight too.

Question about the freely given consent - Say I'm a car company like Tesla and I collect telemetry from the car to train a self-driving car model. I ask the user for consent to collect this data to train the self-driving model. For the users that refuse this consent, can I prevent them from accessing the self-driving feature of the car? If not, how would the company deal with the free-rider problem - nobody opts in b…

In that instance, I (personally, IANAL) wouldn't use consent as the legal basis. You could (esp with a legal team like Tesla could afford) pretty easily work that into either fulfilment of a contract, or legitimate interests.

AI and ML have to be careful [0], as you need to be explicit about the data's use and impact on the end-user. The most given example for this is ML algos that determine eligibility for financial products, but we could probably twist that Tesla example to fit a similar to be "my data is used to inform an algo that determines what the car does in a dangerous situation", so you might have to abide by rights to explanation and data editing.

[0] https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#554

Post by sobani »

_o_ wrote: post #528
LoSboccacc wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what happens when anything of that changes in scope? You gonna resend the consent form to each and every past user? Of corse not. What will happen instead is that behind a consent box a lengthy disclaimer will ask consent for every piece of information and blanket every length of scope, triggering a cascade across providers and contractors.

No it will not. For consent it is explicitly forbiden to use legal / technical speech and you can't cascade it. Allowing you to use my data has nothing to do with you giving my data to google. The more 3rd party "providers" the more fishy will your site look. And you can bet the user wont give consent for 100 tick boxes - you can't pretick them, it needs to be opt-in. And this is the reason: https://www.paypal.com/ie…

A quick scan through that list doesn't raise any red flags for me.

Of course they need to share data with payment providers (like a bank), or else they won't be able to get or deposit your money.

Of course they need to share data with auditing firms, or else they won't be able to do business in certain countries.

Of course they need to provide customer service.

Of course they need to check for fraud.

etc.

What do you expect Paypal to do in those cases?

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#555

Post by zaarn »

freeone3000 wrote: post #420
SahAssar wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not given freely unless consent is given, which in most cases it isn't.

You're referring to express consent. However, the user is granting implied consent - they're the ones visiting our website, they're the ones requesting our images and executing our javascript, and they're the ones filling out our forms. We're not forcing them to do any of these things.

Under the GDPR explicit conset is required, implicit consent is no longer sufficient. End of story.

As the operator of the website it becomes your duty to properly inform the user of what you are doing with their data and why.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#556

Post by chii »

ebcode wrote: post #302
wglb wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will any information that enables identification of the individual (or the other ancillary information spelled out in the article and regulations) be in the blockchain? If not, doesn't sound like it. Here is one way to think of this. Any EU citizen has a "right to be forgotten". If there is nothing in your records to identify that person, the you don't need to provide that ability.

OK, but what the parent is suggesting is that someone might store someone's personally identifiable information on "the blockchain", thus making the entire bitcoin network in violation of GDPR. It's a fairly on-point criticism, IMO.

it's not Bitcoin network that's in violation, but the company that owns the transaction in which the data is in.

let's say I'm a shop and i allow btc payments, but I include the customers info in the transaction or something to such an effect. then I'm in violation, and must pay a fine (since I can never delete that info). The network has nothing to do with this, and nobody else on the network is party to the violation.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#557

Post by icebraining »

OrganicMSG wrote: post #483
hanoz wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP addresses are deemed personally identifiable information. All web servers log these by default - before asking users for permission to do so - and are therefore, bafflingly, about to become illegal.

How does this work out for Git repos and other things with encryption backed histories? If I run a software project and a developer wants an identifying section of a repo back-edited, do I have to edit and rebase the whole repo, and what does this do to the trust in a project that is based on a verifiable history? Also, I can't help but notice that currently there is a hell of a lot of money being bet on immutable pu…

Why are you accepting PII into your software projects' source repository in the first place?

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#558

Post by PeterisP »

OrganicMSG wrote: post #490
PeterisP wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO it simply requires companies to make a clear choice. Either they have the organizational capacity to handle private information properly , or they should not do it at all. There's no reason for every company to get a data processing agreement with every SaaS they use as long as they're not putting private data of other people inside; and in most cases (except CRM and payment systems) they should not do so. There…

"Either they have the organizational capacity to handle private information properly, or they should not do it at all." While I admire the intent here, in the world at large it seems that multinationals and governments fail at this one with monotonous regularity and Blanche's final line - 'Whoever you are, I have always depended on the kindness of strangers', has been adopted by the computer security industry as the…

What I've seen from the world at large is not large multinationals failing at handling private information properly, but rather them not trying to handle private information properly. I.e. it's not because they're incapable of doing so if they wanted, but that they didn't even attempt to do so. GDPR is a way of forcing some of them to stop handling the information, and forcing those who do to actually start trying.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#559

Post by PeterisP »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #523
PeterisP wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO it simply requires companies to make a clear choice. Either they have the organizational capacity to handle private information properly , or they should not do it at all. There's no reason for every company to get a data processing agreement with every SaaS they use as long as they're not putting private data of other people inside; and in most cases (except CRM and payment systems) they should not do so. There…

And what happens when anything of that changes in scope? You gonna resend the consent form to each and every past user? Of corse not. What will happen instead is that behind a consent box a lengthy disclaimer will ask consent for every piece of information and blanket every length of scope, triggering a cascade across providers and contractors.

Can you elaborate about what exactly do you mean by "anything of that changes in scope"?

If you have the same use case of private data but have technical changes (i.e. a different subcontractor handling the processing) then you do not need a new consent.

If you have a new use case, then yes, you get to use only the data of those users who agree to it. Which will not be all users anyway, as consent must be freely given, i.e. with an opportunity to refuse consent but keep the service.

The expected result of "a consent box a lengthy disclaimer will ask consent for every piece of information and blanket every length of scope" would be the TL;DR reaction - since all of that must be opt-in, the user would just click "Continue", keeping the default settings that don't give you any consent.

Re: How GDPR Will Change The Way You Develop

#560

Post by icebraining »

cortesoft wrote: post #443
_o_ wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, so in construction business, you don't need to prove your plans are statically safe, you just build a bridge and no one cares until it colapses? Don't worry, you are far safer here, no one will ask you anything until it collapses. But after it does, you will need a proof it didn't happen becoase of you. That you did all you could. Is there something wrong?

If my web app can kill you, sure we should add regulations that I have to follow and prove that I am following. That is beside the point, though; I wasn't saying regulations were wrong, just that it is unfair to say "If you don't like this particular regulation than you don't care about customers" That is wrong. You can disagree with how a regulation is implemented and still agree with the idea of having a regulation…

If my web app can kill you, sure we should add regulations that I have to follow and prove that I am following.

The Ashley Madison leak has been linked to at least one suicide. But in any case, even if your data can't gravely harm someone by itself, it can when it's linked with other datasets. As the U.S. Privacy Protection Study Commission presciently wrote in their 1977 report,

"The real danger is the gradual erosion of individual liberties through the automation, integration, and interconnection of many small, separate record-keeping systems, each of which alone may seem innocuous, even benevolent, and wholly justifiable."

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