What are the downsides for 1) China and 2) chinese citizens from an objective PoV?
China Blocks WhatsApp
551–560 of 648 posts
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#552Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is going to be tough. A whole generation of Chinese see the west as cool and to be emulated. I have a hard time seeing a whole generation of Europeans and Americans wanting to emulate the Chinese, Japan, maybe. China, not so much.
Speaking as a young Western person, you are severely out of touch on this point.
Name 5 present day Chinese writers, pop stars and movie icons without referring to the web or using google. Then name 5 present day American writers, pop stars and movie icons.
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#553Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is going to be tough. A whole generation of Chinese see the west as cool and to be emulated. I have a hard time seeing a whole generation of Europeans and Americans wanting to emulate the Chinese, Japan, maybe. China, not so much.
As an European of almost 30, I used to feel America is cool, but I got pretty disillusioned over the last 10-15 years. I can tell the same about many people I know too. US is no longer a country to be emulated. It's a country to fear (for what they can, and do, to other countries) and a country to pity (for what it does to its own citizens). China, OTOH, looks more and more cool now. A lot of things that made them se…
> A lot of things that made them seem evil turned out to be exaggerations and propaganda
Such as?
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#554Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a China hawk, but this is what has been happening and what will continue happening unless something massively more drastic than blocking a single minority foreign app happens. I think there's a tendency for people to overestimate the importance of foreign apps to Chinese consumers and to underestimate the Chinese market. It's almost laughable that people think blocking WhatsApp will make any difference to Chinese…
> I think there's a tendency for people to overestimate the importance of foreign apps to Chinese consumers Then why take the trouble of blocking something so small and unimportant? ;) > eg., the Chinese tech/online market is so huge it can sustain multiple competitors of its own in each sector Doesn't China have bigger aspirations than just the mainland? People are missing the bigger point. I'm not talking about the…
I think you are right. I am a Chinese netizen, and I find popular trends in tech areas like new deep learning papers have lags to be posted in Chinese tech communities. People who don't know arxiv.org or can't read English well tend to get news and knowledge from WeChat official accounts. Just a few weeks ago, people get arrested for using Shadowsocks, they were ordered to delete the proxy software and make commitments about not using tools to bypass the great firewall. The gov is clearly getting more control, but when will they hit the price threshold? Will they stop when they know they are in a dilemma? Which side will they choose? That are questions we Chinese still can't answer.
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#555Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an European of almost 30, I used to feel America is cool, but I got pretty disillusioned over the last 10-15 years. I can tell the same about many people I know too. US is no longer a country to be emulated. It's a country to fear (for what they can, and do, to other countries) and a country to pity (for what it does to its own citizens). China, OTOH, looks more and more cool now. A lot of things that made them se…
> A lot of things that made them seem evil turned out to be exaggerations and propaganda Such as?
People living in fear. Strong and full censorship for political reasons (it turned out neither strong not being done for political reasons, but rather economical ones). Population control through forced abortions and murders everywhere (it turned out to be not true). Evil communist leaders. Shit-quality manufacturing (that's the fault of western companies; China manufactures to the specs you give and pay for, it's western companies that decide to cheap out on products). Those are all things I've been led to believe through media reports.
The point being, whatever happened there 40 or 60 years ago, currently China is not that much different from the US, and unlike the latter, it's only getting better.
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#556Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's what I meant by writing: "Russians also have copy-cat versions of many western sites/services that are more popular than original ones". vk == Facebook, Yandex == Google.
C'mon. Yandex is older than Google. It's short-sighted and actually rather arrogant to see those platforms like "look at them, how cute, they're playing information society like the grown-ups!".
"look at them, how cute, they're playing information society like the grown-ups!"
Don't put words in my mouth, I've never said something like that. I just wanted to highlight the fact that most people still prefer local services, either due to language barrier or social/information bubbles to disprove the claim that China would somehow be magically different if there was no Great Firewall.
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#557Earlier quoted context omitted.
China has a long and proud tradition as being at the forefront of civilization, and they see the last 100+ years or so just as a temporary setback. The current ruling class may not see the need to share with the outside world. This may sadly result in the decline of China's competitiveness on the world stage, but those in the ruling class may be more concerned with consolidating their power within the country. This i…
WeChat's "features"? Come on people, these chat apps are pretty basic I use both WeChat and WhatsApp extensively
Wechat = WhatsApp + Facebook + PayPal
Unless you mean Facebook and PayPal are nothing, you are wrong.
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#558Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think there's a tendency for people to overestimate the importance of foreign apps to Chinese consumers Then why take the trouble of blocking something so small and unimportant? ;) > eg., the Chinese tech/online market is so huge it can sustain multiple competitors of its own in each sector Doesn't China have bigger aspirations than just the mainland? People are missing the bigger point. I'm not talking about the…
> It's much harder to create these derivatives without easy access to free flowing data. The data is free flowing enough within China though - that's the bigger point ;) It's not as if you turn off the access to Western information* and suddenly you've got a room full of Chinese developers and entrepreneurs awkwardly twiddling their thumbs - there's enough critical mass within Chinese markets to create the kind of 'd…
> Genuinely, massively disruptive innovation has always crossed over, and will continue to do so unless something drastically worse happens with censorship/politics.
Some would argue that it doesn't even need to cross over because multiple discovery is an actual thing with plenty of historical precedence [0]
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#559Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m surprised iMessage worked for me while I was there. I wonder what consessions Apple had to give for that? From the article: 'Other services provided by American technology companies are available in mainland China. The country tolerates Microsoft’s Skype service for phone calls, which does not provide end-to-end encryption and as a result is easier for governments to monitor. Beijing also allows Apple’s FaceTime…
Sorry, but is there any evidence that iMessage or FaceTime has been MITMed? In China or elsewhere? (I wonder whether it's tolerated because of Apple's small market share...)
> Sorry, but is there any evidence that iMessage or FaceTime has been MITMed? In China or elsewhere?
Yes.
Re: China Blocks WhatsApp
#560Why does the US allow China to block so many American technologies? To me this is almost akin to banning the import of American cars, or any other domestic export.
The United States has such a huge trade deficit with China, you would think the government would fight for whatever little "export" they can get, whether it be a technological export or otherwise.