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Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

where.coraline.codes

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Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting from an article by her on meritocracy[1]: > In the Ruby world, we insist that “Matz Is Nice And So We Are Nice,” ignoring the sexist statements he has made with regard to diversity outreach efforts. We write off Linus Torvalds’ dismissal of diversity as an “unimportant detail” and justify it based on the utility of his creations. But why is it that we can proudly refuse to use software created by corporations…

I don't think it's about labeling people as being good or bad, but more about not letting things stand. If you encounter attitudes from people that are hostile towards you, you can either speak up and allow them to correct themselves (or double-down) or be silent and give your tacit approval.

I think sometimes opinions are best left to change slowly or through exposure, when you approach things in this way it often just comes off as hostile and that doubling down you're talking about becomes a much more common response.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any sources on this bias in tech? Genuinely curious.

If you're curious, consider doing research on the subject rather than asking people to re-litigate the whole thing from first principles every time the topic comes up. It gets exhausting because most people operate from a position of "a belief that there is no significant bias/significant effect from bias is the correct default assumption unless/until someone demonstrates otherwise through overwhelming evidence". And…

My intention with this question was to probe if there was anyone that has experience within this field that might have any milestone studies/papers on hand, or something that they can cite from memory. The reason for this is that when you venture into a new field of study it usually takes time sorting out the wheat from the chaff. Now off course I can do the research on my own, it was simply a question I asked to save time.

To assume that I have some sort of hidden agenda behind this question is rather paranoid from my perspective (and came as a surprise), as you didn't know anything about my intentions.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a presentation by Coraline given in 2013 at Ruby Midwest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2TOY4lufIM

I'm not going to watch the entire 30 minute video on my phone. Is the point you're not actually making that Coraline previously was known as Corey and appeared to be a man?

My point is that approaching this with a "I think if this were a man..." hypothetical is doomed to end in confusion.

1. Some people will think Coraline is a man.

1a. Those people might well discriminate against Coraline for failing to live up to gender stereotypes expected of a man ("deal with it!")

2. Some people will think Coraline is a woman.

2a. Those people might well discriminate against Coraline for failing to live up to gender stereotypes expected of a woman ("more empathetic communication!")

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is super-cynical. If you want to get rid of them, you don't have to have success criteria at all. You could just document the behavior that makes them want to fire them ("you smell funny") and followups in an email, and call it a day after a week or so. Having success criteria when you just want to get rid of someone means if they do succeed, but you still wanted to just get rid of them, you are worse off as an…

I don't think you're correct here. As I've understood the concept for something like a decade, PIPs are almost universally understood to be a soft form of firing. The correct response to receiving a PIP, probably in most SV companies, is to start looking for another job. It's easy to turn your own logic back around on you. Since it's a more-or-less open secret that most PIPs are part of managed termination, every com…

> I don't think you're correct here. As I've understood the concept for something like a decade, PIPs are almost universally understood to be a soft form of firing. The correct response to receiving a PIP, probably in most SV companies, is to start looking for another job.

I have a friend who was put on a two-month PIP and was fired at the end of it. Two weeks before the end of his PIP, his boss scheduled a meeting with him to "clear some things up" and tell him that his PIP isn't going well.

The first thing I told my friend after that was "Dude, he just gave you your two weeks notice. Start ramping up the job search.". And at the beginning of his PIP, I told him that he was effectively being given two months notice.

He took my advice, by the way, and landed a new job less than two weeks after being fired.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post would never have been written if the author of the question hadn't immediately escalated by complaining to her manager. The data scientist was not walking on eggshells- they felt perfectly justified in escalating the situation. Even the manager didn't have a problem with how she'd handled it! I read it as an indictment of the company and its procedures. The data scientist was not even named. The bulk of the…

> they felt perfectly justified in escalating the situation So they should have been, being accused of transphobia is a serious accusation. Anyone accused of anything like transphobia, homophobia, islamaphobia or any other of these discriminations is absolutely right to escalate the matter straight away to their manager or HR. > The data scientist was not even named She was gendered, how many data scientists work at…

If the account is to be believed, she was not accused of transphobia. She was told about a question that was misphrased. Even the author's manager couldn't articulate anything she'd done wrong.

The "transphobia" judgement by the poster comes later in the post, and it is addressed to the question itself, not the author of the question.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to watch the entire 30 minute video on my phone. Is the point you're not actually making that Coraline previously was known as Corey and appeared to be a man?

My point is that approaching this with a "I think if this were a man..." hypothetical is doomed to end in confusion. 1. Some people will think Coraline is a man. 1a. Those people might well discriminate against Coraline for failing to live up to gender stereotypes expected of a man ("deal with it!") 2. Some people will think Coraline is a woman. 2a. Those people might well discriminate against Coraline for failing to…

It's not doomed to end in confusion at all. Discussing Coraline might end in confusion, but that's the whole reason for creating an abstract hypothetical to talk about in the first place.

The point of creating such a hypothetical is to imagine what sort of discussion we would be having if the subject is not Coraline. So, it doesn't matter if Coraline is a man or is a woman or a transgender woman or a transgender man or a unisexual space alien from the other side of the galaxy. We can reason about how "a man" would be treated without getting stuck on ambiguities about Coraline.

Now, what could be confusing about the hypothetical is if we're not in agreement about what "a man" means. So let me be more explicit: I'm using the default understanding of what that means, which in the tedious language of modernity means a cisgender male. For simplicity, let's assume it's a white, heteronormative male, even though I don't think the reaction would be different for non-white not-hetero cisgender males.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that approaching this with a "I think if this were a man..." hypothetical is doomed to end in confusion. 1. Some people will think Coraline is a man. 1a. Those people might well discriminate against Coraline for failing to live up to gender stereotypes expected of a man ("deal with it!") 2. Some people will think Coraline is a woman. 2a. Those people might well discriminate against Coraline for failing to…

It's not doomed to end in confusion at all. Discussing Coraline might end in confusion, but that's the whole reason for creating an abstract hypothetical to talk about in the first place. The point of creating such a hypothetical is to imagine what sort of discussion we would be having if the subject is not Coraline. So, it doesn't matter if Coraline is a man or is a woman or a transgender woman or a transgender man…

There's no such thing as a hypothetical or an abstract man.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#558
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have started to use emojis almost excessively in situations where there is risk of misinterpretation due to my terseness. It comes across a bit unprofessional, but I prefer that over being considered rude or lacking empathy. I believe the latter impression is harder to recover from.

I do the same thing. I wouldn't do it in early interactions with someone or with customers, but with colleagues and friends in conversations I often think that terse factual statements can be mis-interpreted, and I'd rather be thought of as unprofessional/frivilous rather than rude. Also re-reading e-mails whilst mentally putting myself in the shoes of the recipient to see if I think it could be mis-intepreted helps…

Its a wise thing to do. I use it to simulate, how I would do in a face to face communication. So a smiley, where you would actually smile, to soften the blow, or to add humility when pointing somebody's wrong could be useful. Of course its use has to be limited, else it will look like a typical WhatsApp message emoticon train. :)

There are lots of small things, which if more people do, would lead to friendlier communications. E.g. replying with a greeting, to a mail which has greeting.

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#559
post #81

The impression I have after reading this that Ms. Ehmke had a shit attitude and people got sick of it. And that she hasn't seen that yet. I'm sorry if this seems unempathetic - getting fired sucks, and is extremely painful. But there's no other way I can put it. A long time ago, when my career first started, I also went through the "PIP deathspiral", and it took months... maybe years after my termination to realize I…

The impression I have after reading your comments is that you're a gobshite.

Commenting like this will get your account banned. Please stop and re-read the guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub

#560
Some things that stood out to me after reading the whole thing:

- Other engineers dog-piling on her first few PRs showed that there was a complete lack of trust in her, and perhaps an active distrust in her abilities. I have no comments regarding whether this was deserved or not, but the known facts point to such a reality.

- Writing a feature blog post based on a personal perspective and personal past experience is not something a matured corporation can allow. This should not have been a surprise.

- Being the most productive engineer is not the goal of a Principal level engineer. I don't believe any software management would expect their Principal engineers to be sitting at the desk cranking out code all day. Influencing large scale initiatives across the org is more of the job expectation. This means building relationships with lots of people, which means less coding and more guidance of other engineers to do the coding.

- By that point, the expectation must have been high for what she can contribute on the diversity front. The terse messaging regarding the survey probably didn't help, but I also don't see it as a big deal. It's probably just piling on past issues.

- The rest is standard PIP procedure of managing out someone who isn't working out. I would love to say that I know how better to handle a PIP, but I don't.

It seems to me that Github expected a much stronger engineer, but feel like they didn't get one and that she was underperforming. Was that the actual reality? I don't know, and I don't feel qualified to pass judgment.

Which leads me to my final thought: it does seem like Github might have an empathy problem. My guess is that Coraline had her own set of insecurities about being at Github going into the job, and the first few encounters with the rest of the org put them into overdrive. It's unfortunate that her manager did not deem it productive to learn what her insecurities were and validate her on those fronts, which I believe might have put her back on the right track towards success. Instead, Coraline hunkered down and started cranking out code, and possibly withdrawing from the org around her? Rather than doing her intended job.

But, it is a lot to ask for a manager to do all of that, and she was a Principal engineer after all.

Getting a job is like getting married, even if things look all good at the ceremony, there's still years of sustained work/relationship-building to come. This one looks like a case of bad matching. In no way as to diminish Coraline's story, I've seen this happen to a lot of different kinds of people from all walks of life.

My 2 pennies.

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