Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

They Used To Last 50 Years

recraigslist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

551–560 of 877 posts

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#551

Post by ecopoesis »

Modern appliances are crap because that's all consumers will pay for. For example, if you want a washer that could double as a main battle tank, get a Speed Queen. The only problem is it costs twice what a name brand one does at a big box store.

In real dollars, appliances have gotten much cheaper. I found a Sears catalog from 1960 that had a refrigerator for $359. According to the inflation calculator I found, that's $2948.10 today. The descendent of the 1960 Kenmore is $429 on sears.com today, and manages to have twice the capacity.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#552

Post by lsaferite »

expnsv_hdphns wrote: post #512

When I went to the first semester of engineering school at the University of Wisconsin - Madison, there was a class called Engineering Professional Development 160: Introduction to Engineering. One of the early class sessions was a lecture from a guy at a power tool company, making some kind of jigsaw or handheld cutting tool. He explicitly told us, paraphrasing, "You don't want to make your product too reliable, bec…

> "You don't want to make your product too reliable, because people won't buy more of them, and you won't make as much money"

> Of course this site is dedicated to the idea he expressed, so I am not looking for agreement here

This feels like a comment that needs some explanation or proof (your comment, not lecturer's).

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#553

Post by modeopfer »

expnsv_hdphns wrote: post #512

When I went to the first semester of engineering school at the University of Wisconsin - Madison, there was a class called Engineering Professional Development 160: Introduction to Engineering. One of the early class sessions was a lecture from a guy at a power tool company, making some kind of jigsaw or handheld cutting tool. He explicitly told us, paraphrasing, "You don't want to make your product too reliable, bec…

I also studied engineering and I think your professor missed the point. You don't overengineer stuff anymore nowadays, not because you want to scam your consumer out of money (aka planned obsolence) but because the design tools got better and every gram of metal or plastic and every screw and every operation like welding, glueing and so on costs money. Nowadays simulation tools, new manufacturing processes and experience allow very cheap designs that endure the predicted amount of stress but not much more. That's the trade-off.

Not every customer needs a power drill that lasts 5000 hours. Most people are okay with a cheap drill that lasts a cumulative 10 hours because that's the amount of lifetime use they get out of it.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#554

Post by nkrisc »

Keverw wrote: post #199
mrbill wrote: post #174

When we moved into this house 12 years ago, I got the cheapest, simplest, most "mechanical" washer and dryer set that Lowe's offered (I think it's branded GE). Haven't had a single problem other than the light inside the dryer eventually burned out when a housemate left the door open. I know that when one of them eventually fails, it will hopefully be a cheap and simple mechanical fix. I have no desire to own a "majo…

I remember seeing on HN a year or two ago? About Samsung smart fridges calendar app not being updated when Google phased out the API it was using. Also Blu-ray players don't get updates after a long while too I've heard as YouTube and Netflix changes their APIs - the devs of these devices don't keep them up to date. I would prefer a dumb TV, and just buy a replaceable box with the computer part. The only way I could…

I had to go out of my way to find a dumb TV. But when I found it, it was a few hundred cheaper than smart TVs of the same size. I saved money and headache!

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#555

Post by rbehrends »

nimish wrote: post #503
lobster_johnson wrote: post #92

There's a subreddit ( https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/ ) trying to track objects that don't suffer from planned obsolescence. Not a lot of appliances there, though. The article seems very US-centric, and doesn't mention European brands such as Miele, Bosch, Siemens and Jura (coffee machines), all of which are wholly owned and produce high-quality stuff.

Bosch and Siemens (and Neff) are owned by BSH, most of the european brands are also parts of conglomerates and have stratified low/medium/high end. Except for Miele, but who wants to spend 1000 quid on a washer?

You've got it the wrong way around. BSH is a subsidiary of Bosch. It used to be jointly owned by Bosch and Siemens until Bosch bought out Siemens's share.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#556

Post by jschwartzi »

no_wizard wrote: post #141
toast0 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A really long warranty only helps if the company remains solvent. I would be happier with something the manufacturer was confident was serviceable. Control boards that approach the cost of a high end smartphone are unreasonable, but also common.

I always had this dream of starting a company where my disruption to whatever industry, say home appliances, or cars, isn't that I'm doing something new, per say, its that I'm engineering everything the company would sell with DIY easy access fixes in mind, and actually publish (and ship with the product) the repair manual so people can just order the parts (with some margin, nothing crazy i'd think) and be on their…

This is how a lot of Sears products worked. When I was a kid we had a little Craftsman tractor, and the entire repair manual and parts were available online. This was also true of their vacuums, and was how I got a $200 vacuum for $20 in college(a belt was broken). You could even buy parts in Sears.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#557

Post by martinp »

reitanqild wrote: post #293
tiatia wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"would gladly pay $3000 for a washer" Miele. https://9to5mac.com/2011/03/07/how-steve-jobs-picks-a-washer...

Miele Seconded: the Miele that my family insisted on buying us for the wedding is well beyond 8 years and we haven't had a single problem. 10 years warranty but rumour have it they might easily last up 20 years although you might have to change parts somewhere between 10 and 20 years. Oh, and I think it cost something less than USD1000.

Another anecdote: My sister took over my apartment late 2014. Some time in 2015, the dishwasher (Miele) stopped working. She called support to see if it could be repaired. When she provided them with the serial number she was told that the dishwasher was in fact manufactured in 1994.

It had lasted through 21 years of regular use, by multiple owners.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#558

Post by tormeh »

iopq wrote: post #439
tormeh wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy the one with the best warranty. A warranty is essentially a bet by the manufacturer that it won't break.

Usually failure follows a bathtub curve. If you know your appliance will probably break in 10 years, you can still offer a 3 year warranty easily without costing almost any extra.

A 3 year warranty is not the best warranty. It's just the legally required minimum where I'm from. I was thinking more like 10-15 years.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#559

Post by Thlom »

BJanecke wrote: post #477
iNerdier wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two a day ? What on earth are they doing to require that much washing?

I'm going to assume it's got to do with the multiple layers of clothing they no doubt have to wear in that climate.

Inner layer is always wool, which really doesn't have to be washed that much unless it's stained, but not everyone knows this so most still wash wool as much as cotton. Wool is very breathable, so just hang it out and it's as good as washed with less wear.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#560

Post by jschwartzi »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #366
jemfinch wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [T]he market has to prefer quality over price, and pay for it even when there is a cheaper, lower quality alternative. That's really hard to do when so much of the market is living paycheck to paycheck. Many people want to choose quality, but simply can't afford it: their dishwasher is broken and they've got to steal from the food budget or the kids' Christmas gifts to fix it before Thanksgiving. The decline in app…

It is hard to do, and it is harder for these folks to understand that paying for quality is cheaper than going for the lowest price. A $500 washing machine that lasts 50 years "costs" $10/year (after 50 years you'll have to replace it with another one). A $300 Washing Machine that lasts 10 years costs $30/year. Or conversely a $300 machine that lasts 10 years will be re-bought 5 times over a 50 year period ($1,500),…

You have to have a savings in order to amortize. Most people might have a few-hundred dollars that they need to feed a family and drive to work on until their next paycheck. This is the demographic that will pay $300 every ten years instead of $500 every 50, because they would have to choose not to eat for two weeks.
Post reply on HN