Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

551–560 of 623 posts

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#551

Post by wibr »

ghshephard wrote: post #530
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried arguing the dangers of concentrated fruit sweeteners not so long ago. There was some debate about whether candy prices were too low.. But the truth is folks get much more sugar from supposedly "healthy" items in the form of fruit juice and concentrates. It is in the bread most folks eat (and sometimes whole grain bread is higher to make it more palletable), they put it in savory foods, and fruit juices and pe…

" But the truth is folks get much more sugar from supposedly "healthy" items in the form of fruit juice and concentrates. " Or, if you are here in Asia/Singapore, where T2 diabetes is starting to become a big issue- the 3-5 servings of white rice people eat each day is a front page issue on the newspapers.

I think eating a few bowls of rice per day (usually combined with a lot of veggies and some meat) is something that has been done in Asia for a long time, why would it be related to a recent increase in diabetes?

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#552

Post by jeffdavis »

paulcole wrote: post #504
muddyrivers wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the tolerance, and then the love, of highly sweet things is acquired. And mostly probably, it is acquired when one is a child. I have met and worked with many East Asians and Europeans who came to American in their 20's or older. Almost everyone of them thought American pastry and deserts are unbearably sweet. Most of them shun from soda drinks and other "food" containing high amounts of sugar. If they dr…

Americans saying that foods are too sweet is quickly becoming the new "I don't have a TV." It's a humblebrag to show off status.

Even if that's true, what's your point?

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#553

Post by jeffdavis »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #545
lexhaynes wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say you don't eat sugar, what does that mean? Do you eat fruit? Bread? Things that metabolize to sugar -- potatoes, squash, tomatoes, grapes, watermelon, barbecue sauce etc. Do you ever indulge in chocolate cake? What about wine or beer? I just find the term "sugar" to be extremely vague when 50% of foods metabolize to sugar...

The issue is fructose and sucrose, people end up getting confused with glucose, which is not the problem.

Clarification: sucrose is a molecule that quickly breaks down into one glucose and one fructose molecule, so it's basically 50/50 glucose/fructose. Fruit juice, honey, and HFCS are also about 50/50 glucose/fructose.

Almost all other carbohydrates break down into glucose and no fructose at all.

So one theory is that the fructose is especially bad. It is processed in a different pathway and might be a lot worse than the glucose pathway.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#554

Post by prostoalex »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #276
PieterH wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother (1973, Edinburgh) bought "Pure, White, and Deadly," and we all read it. I was ten or so. Yudkin attacked white flour, white (processed) fat, and above all white sugar. It made perfect sense to us all, and cutting back on sugar became a slow, yet consistent part of our lifestyle. We never ate that much anyhow. I stopped eating sugar entirely at 15. I still recall the book's cover. Edit: it took me a lot long…

>> lifelong damage to their health. It's only lifelong damage if you don't change your diet and lifestyle. The world is filled with people who were morbidly obese and have made the changes necessary to reverse the damage and live far more healthy lives now. The way you put it, it sounds like an irreversible course akin to a death sentence, which it most certainly is not.

The number of fat cells is set in childhood and stays constant throughout adulthood, according to research conveniently titled "Fat cell number is set in childhood and stays constant in adulthood" http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2008/05/04/fat-cell...

The size of those fat cells can be changed through diet and lifestyle, but since the number of fat cells cannot be lowered naturally, sticking to a healthier lifestyle is extremely hard for a [formerly] obese person, as there's just one thing the fat cells are programmed to do, and that is to grow in size.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#555

Post by prostoalex »

drumttocs8 wrote: post #482
muzster wrote: post #8

RIP: British Scientist John Yudkin - The man who tried to warn us about the perils of sugar.. Source(s) : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/diet/10634081... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin Edit: Lest we not forget his arch-enemy Ancel Keys

Ancel Keys was certainly wrong when it came to sugars vs fats. However, he did live to be 100... so there's got to be at least some merit to his ideas, such as the Mediterranean diet, etc.

Isn't the merit of the Mediterranean mainly about increasing the amount of omega-3 fatty acids through increased consumption of high-fat low-carb foods such as fish, green leafy vegetables, olives, cheeses and olive oils?

Which is the complete opposite of low-fat high-carb diet recommended by Keys?

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#556

Post by summarite »

wibr wrote: post #551
ghshephard wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" But the truth is folks get much more sugar from supposedly "healthy" items in the form of fruit juice and concentrates. " Or, if you are here in Asia/Singapore, where T2 diabetes is starting to become a big issue- the 3-5 servings of white rice people eat each day is a front page issue on the newspapers.

I think eating a few bowls of rice per day (usually combined with a lot of veggies and some meat) is something that has been done in Asia for a long time, why would it be related to a recent increase in diabetes?

There is more than one kind of rice and some are more healthy than others. White rice used to be reserved for the rich, now it's mainstream all-day food for all, but it is rather poor in nutrients.

Also Asia (i assume you mean ready Asia) does know other foods than rice, think various noodles, soups, etc.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#557

Post by jeffdavis »

cm2012 wrote: post #540
legostormtroopr wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just defeatism, and falls down here "after completing structured weight-loss programs". The problem here is thinking of weight-loss in the short term. If you are 200kg, and drink 5L of soda every day, you don't stop drinking soda for 12 months, lose weight and then go back to drinking 5L soda a day and except to keep the weight off. You change your diet, and keep it that way. For ever. Thats how weight loss h…

Most people don't succesfully change diet over the long term.

I changed my diet a lot after I got married, and I think it worked mainly because I was embarrassed to buy pie and ice cream all the time. If it's not in the house, I won't eat it casually every day ("if I don't finish this pie soon, it will get all dried out and go to waste!").

Maybe the key is to make diet changes along with other life changes. But I think people do the opposite: "I just started a new job... I'll settle in first before I go on that diet".

Naturally, it would make sense that changing habits would happen all at once. When else in history have we been able to say "I just moved someplace new... Now, where is the nearest KFC?". No, you move, and everything would change, including diet.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#558

Post by fsloth »

paulcole wrote: post #504
muddyrivers wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the tolerance, and then the love, of highly sweet things is acquired. And mostly probably, it is acquired when one is a child. I have met and worked with many East Asians and Europeans who came to American in their 20's or older. Almost everyone of them thought American pastry and deserts are unbearably sweet. Most of them shun from soda drinks and other "food" containing high amounts of sugar. If they dr…

Americans saying that foods are too sweet is quickly becoming the new "I don't have a TV." It's a humblebrag to show off status.

I think you got it the wrong way around.

Imitation of habits with percieved high prestige value is one of the most strongest causes of cultural shifts.

Cultural shifts are accompanied by lot of things - including bragging about ones new lifestyle - which then drives the shift in braggees network (social proof if he/she is an average member of the network, imitation of an idol figure if her status is high).

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#559

Post by prostoalex »

will_brown wrote: post #348
bad_user wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is reductionist thinking, the same kind of thinking that led to the low-fat fad, which unfortunately lasted decades. Fruits don't deliver just fructose, the also deliver nutrients, vitamins, antioxidants and fiber. As a consequence we digest fruits differently compared with processed sugar, as the absorption of fructose when eating fruits is slowed down. And our taste buds love sugar because our bodies crave for…

>As a consequence we digest fruits differently compared with processed sugar, as the absorption of fructose when eating fruits is slowed down. When sugar is introduced to the body the liver begins to store/process the sugar. So it doesn't matter whether the sugar is from say coke (high fructose corn syrup) or an Apple. What happens when the liver can't store/process the amount of sugar you ingest is the body triggers…

+1. It's all about the insulin release. After a year or so on a zerocarb diet I'd allow myself an occasional feast of fresh fruit, but in the process my body has become so sensitive to insulin, a fresh spike of it would lead to an immediate loss of energy and sleepiness regardless of the time of day.

I've tracked my weight and did blood tests consistently, and most dramatic weight loss periods coincided with the minimal insulin presence.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#560

Post by fsloth »

adrianggg wrote: post #273
adrianggg wrote: post #182

I rarely say anything is black and white in this world but sugar is in my opinion. Without any doubt in my mind. Recently in the last 3 months I gave up sugar, hard core, it's hard but the benefits are out of this world. I was healthy and active. I ate healthy, or so I thought. Boy was I wrong and mis informed. I had heard theories so I decided to check them out. I went all out to avoid sugar for a couple of weeks ju…

A really smart guy said to me once something like, “if you are smart and have money and you don't eat well then you are not smart”. I can't remember the exact quote but the sentiment really stuck with me. Look I'm no expert but I'm telling you the results are outrageous. Please do your own research as I only really have a school boy understanding of how this affects the body. My skin cleared up, my ailments all disap…

sorry...

No, man, it's important to share these ideas. My energy levels jumped when I changed my lunches from carbs&protein (pasta, potato etc) to salads with protein.

You can put vinegar, salt and a dash of olive oil as seasoning into a salads - still no sugars.

Post reply on HN