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Chrome removes Backspace to go back

bugs.chromium.org

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Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#551

Post by samuellb »

I welcome this change, because I've lost a lot of form data with the backspace key. Not specifically in Chrome, because I remember having the same problem with IE 6 at the time when Firefox was still in alpha and was called "Phoenix".

Now I wish that the Thunderbird developers also remove or change their single letter shortcuts that are easy to mis-type. E.g. "A" for archive, which creates an undeletable "Archive" folder in your mail account. There's a bugzilla issue for it here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=615957

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#552

Post by JdeBP »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #293
klodolph wrote: post #239

I'm going to take a somewhat contrarian view and say, "Thank you, Chrome developers." It's always easy to tell apart the people who know shortcuts from the people who don't, if you watch them use their computers. Someone with a few shortcuts on tap will zoom around their monitors, switching between mouse and keyboard only when necessary. But there are a few shortcuts and user interface quirks that are too outdated an…

I appreciate when a product group is brave enough to strip away a traditional behavior to accommodate such a common and annoying case. They knew they were gonna catch holy hell for this one from the small but vocal group of people who use keyboards for absolutely everything and opted for a more user friendly behavior. And I fully believe that people don't know what they want until they're shown it, so I rely on data…

> the small but vocal group of people who use keyboards for absolutely everything

That's a mischaracterization. After all, for the people who use keyboards for absolutely everything, there are still two keyboard chords for "go back a page".

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#553

Post by TeMPOraL »

civilian wrote: post #385
nitrogen wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keyboard shortcuts are only undiscoverable because apps stopped listing the shortcuts next to the menu items.

110% yes. I've been playing Stellaris, and they actually put hotkey references in the tooltip! I can't do everything with the keyboard, but I'm doing way more than I was. Hotkeys are great and we should encourage more tooltips & labels with them. Not just in videogames, but in anything that could benefit from hotkeys.

Emacs has a nice way of teaching people shortcuts. If you invoke a command via some menu or M-x full-command-name that has a shortcut bound to it, you'll get a message in the minibuffer saying "You can also run full-command-name with: shortcut". It's a very non-invasive way to teach people shortcuts just-in-time.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#554

Post by IvanK_net »

qb45 wrote: post #144
IvanK_net wrote: post #117

I wanted to use Ctrl+N, Ctrl+O and Ctrl+T shortcuts in my webapp. I reported a bug 3 years ago https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=321810 which is not fixed yet, but they have "fixed" Backspace ... that seems crazy to me.

And what's next to override, the power button? I wholly agree with this WONTFIX.

Browser still has the top part of the window containing navigation buttons. There will always be at least one way to "kill a website" if something bad happens. All other controls should be offered to webapps to let them give users a better experience.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#555

Post by TeMPOraL »

_pferreir_ wrote: post #312
jon-wood wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with configuration options is that they need maintaining indefinitely to accommodate a small proportion of the user population. That means testing behaviour with the flag on/off, and taking into account the possibility of that flag being on when dealing with bug reports. In this case it's a minor thing which probably wouldn't require much maintainance, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

This. Configuration flags increase complexity. Every time you change the feature in question (or add something that uses it) you will have to take into account every possible flag combination.

That's not true. It's like whenever you change a line of code you need to take into account every other line of code in the project.

If option for backspace behaviour suddenly starts interfering with some unrelated feature, it means somebody seriously fucked up the architecture of the project. Nothing else. Configuration flags aren't scary, and should not be used as a rationalization for dumbing down software.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#556

Post by TeMPOraL »

chc wrote: post #346
retox wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tyranny of the vocal minority. It's a race to the bottom.

Do you really feel like the majority of PC users want backspace to navigate in a web browser? I seriously doubt the majority have ever intentionally used that shortcut. It wouldn't even surprise me if it were more often used unintentionally than intentionally.

Most users don't want shit. They take what is given to them and learn to use it. Which means every feature you remove from your software is one less thing your users can do now. Good if you're lazy, but the point of software should be to empower people to do more.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#557

Post by CydeWeys »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #497
CydeWeys wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People complain about it all the time on anything having to do with video playing, because when the video player has focus space is used to play/pause the video, but when the player is not focused, it scrolls down the page. Frankly, I would be perfectly happy if space to page went away entirely. I exclusively use two finger dragging on laptops and scroll wheels on desktops to browse websites. I never use space to mov…

I use space-to-scroll very frequently when reading long passages of text. I consider it a valuable shortcut. I don't find it jarring at all to read that way, because I know where to resume reading after hitting space. There is one exception: a lot of websites with absolutely-positioned headers scroll incorrectly when you hit space, such that the point you would resume reading at ends up behind the header, and you hav…

That header issue is especially jarring to me too, and it's one of the reasons I don't use space to page, because it doesn't work consistently everywhere. Two-finger dragging always works, as does scroll wheel.

I do use paginated reading on my Kindle, which always gets it right. It doesn't quite work properly on the web often enough though.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#558

Post by JdeBP »

jemfinch wrote: post #111
thiht wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alt+Left requires moving both hands, Backspace is only one finger away If only Alt-Gr+Left or Right Ctrl+Left worked...

Alt+Left requires two fingers, but not two hands. You're aware of the alt to the right of the space bar, yes?

In many keyboard layouts, this key is not an Alt modifier. It is, rather, level 3 shift (in ISO 9995 terminology) - a.k.a. "Option", a.k.a. "Alt Gr".

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#559

Post by Dayshine »

746F7475 wrote: post #512
ultramancool wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they do impose a constant and non-trivial burden on everyone else (especially in cases like backspace which are relatively easy to hit on accident). So make them an option and stop taking the Chrome route of stripping out everything that more advanced users use regularly. Of course, this is why I run Firefox. I can do things like force OCSP enabled and get error pages when it fails - Chrome's solution was t…

> So make them an option and stop taking the Chrome route of stripping out everything that more advanced users use regularly. Did you really use backspace and "move back" on regular basis? Why? You most likely aren't browsing the web with just your keyboard, so unless you are a leftie it requires you to either move your hand back to keyboard or move your hand across the whole keyboard and why would you do either of t…

>with your mouses thumb button?

Because I'm far more likely to accidentally press the mouse thumb button, hence it's rebound.

Re: Chrome removes Backspace to go back

#560

Post by JdeBP »

handelaar wrote: post #278
jemfinch wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alt+Left requires two fingers, but not two hands. You're aware of the alt to the right of the space bar, yes?

On American keyboards.

It's not the keyboards. It's the keyboard layouts that are configured in software. And not all "American" keyboard layouts make that key an Alt modifier. The Microsoft Windows "United States International" keyboard layout makes it level 3 shift, for example.

And if one includes North America and South America in "American" the same goes for the Canadian Multilingual and the Brazilian Portuguese layouts. (-:

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