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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#541

Post by PhasmaFelis »

Zelphyr wrote: post #193
sethbannon wrote: post #57

Comments here are pretty supportive of Brendan but I see this as nothing but a victory for Mozilla and a victory for consumer activism. It should be clear by now that you cannot run a large company in the public eye while you espouse vitriolic and discriminatory views that belong in the last century.

There is ample evidence that he never once espoused his views at Mozilla. So much so that his own co-founder didn't realize he had such a position until it came to light 13 years into their working relationship. What the LGBT community needs is true victory where they're treated no differently from anyone else. This is only a victory for the righteous indignation that is rampant on the Internet. It is pretty sad that…

> It is pretty sad that those who were most vocal about Mr. Eich stepping down because of his beliefs no doubt have little problem giving their money to the likes of Orson Scott Card who I would submit is considerably more harmful to the cause than Brendan Eich has been.

I seriously doubt that. Plenty of gay-rights fans, myself included, have refused to purchase anything with Card's name on it since his views became public.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#543

Post by nilkn »

jcromartie wrote: post #328
nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

You could also say that it was pretty much unacceptable to support women's suffrage or be against slavery in certain times and places. But, the thing is, these ideas have trajectories. The idea that slavery is wrong or women should have the right to vote never got less accepted over time.

> The idea that slavery is wrong or women should have the right to vote never got less accepted over time.

This cannot be the case, because those ideas have not existed since the beginning of time. They had an origin and therefore an upward trajectory towards their reification in law.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#544

Post by stiles »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #183
akerl_ wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have considered him a worse person if he'd done that. I disagree with his opinions on marriage, but he has the right to have those opinions, and to provide support for causes he believes in. I'm not shocked the he is stepping down, or that others in the organization appear to have applied substantial pressure on him to do so, but it makes me sad. Their statements about supporting freedom of speech are hollow:…

Ironically, though, his opinion was supported by the majority in that California election: 7 million to 6.4 million in favor of Prop 8. I guess if they consider any other candidates for CEO from California, they'll have to ask them how they voted.

Please remember that part of the reason many voted in favor of Prop 8 was because of the amount of money raised in donations allowed a massive ad campaign that was full of lies and deceit.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#545

Post by ionforce »

Gormo wrote: post #354
dasil003 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the community has pressured him to step down because he expressed an opinion not held by the majority. That's not true. The fact that the majority believe the idea was necessary for the pressure to be applied, but it is not why the pressure was applied. The pressure was applied because his views trample on others' rights, and equal rights is philosophically closely tied with the entire mission of an organization li…

> his views trample on others' rights No; I don't agree with Eich's views, but merely having those views does not implicate anyone else's rights in any way at all. Rights are violated by actions , not merely by expressing distasteful opinions.

Donating money over time against marriage equality is pretty distasteful.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#546

Post by [deleted] »

facepalm wrote: post #451
dopamean wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I saw no reason to believe that he would use Mozilla to further an anti-gay agenda. I agree. However, it's a little weird if you say you are a company who values diversity and different lifestyles but you have a CEO who is openly against a particular group of people. That kind of contradiction at the very top makes things weird.

Has he ever said anything against gays? Being opposed to gay marriage is not the same as being opposed to gays.

[deleted]

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#547

Post by sp332 »

Borogove wrote: post #110
mathattack wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A leader stepping down due to death threats is a terrible thing for an organization.

Were there actually threats? I just googled "Brendan Eich threat" and didn't see anything relevant.

Yeah, Mozilla employees have also been threatened. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7525657

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#548

Post by vesinisa »

crassus wrote: post #408
HillRat wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two sides to that -- the first is that, yes, he absolutely has the right to hold any opinion he wants to, no matter how noxious I or others may find them. To paraphrase Hall on Voltaire, I'll defend to the death their right to be assholes. (Full disclosure: pro- gay marriage, anti-Prop 8, not a CA resident, so doesn't really affect me.) On the other hand, there's no absolute right to be a public-facing CEO, a…

This is exactly how opinion worked in East Germany. You didn't have to be a communist, but if you weren't you would never work again. We have the exact same protection for political expression as East Germany. That's freedom? "The Lives of Others" was a warning, not an instruction manual.

Eich has been with Mozilla since the very beginning, and before that he worked at Netscape, writing the first implementation of JavaScript among others. There was some uproar when his Prop 8 donation was revealed in 2012, but no noticeable calls for him to be fired as a Mozilla employee.

But it's obviously a totally different case when you become the CEO. You are meant to be the highest public-facing representative of the corporation. It was publicly known that Eich holds very conflicting views to what many consider a basic civil right, and per his interviews seems to still hold. I can fully understand how this is an impossible equation with leading a company that claims to be committed to equality and inclusiveness.

Do not confuse freedom of speech with lack of public accountability.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#549

Post by themgt »

dopamean wrote: post #131
DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

Right. How many people would be in here saying this is a free-speech issue if he had donated money to support a law against marriages between people of different races? It is absolutely about human rights, and I applaud the community for drawing a red line on this.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#550

Post by filmgirlcw »

What I still can't understand is how Eich was ever approved by the board to begin with. His qualifications aside, the very fact that this had already become public before and was clearly antithetical to the ethos of Mozilla's position as a company should have excluded him from ever getting the job.

As CTO, people might have disagreed with his opinion, but it's hard to make a salient argument that he should be forced out for having that opinion.

It's a bit different when your job entails overseeing an entire organization -- including HR -- and you financially contribute to causes that aim to exclude some of your current or future employees.

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